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Old 02-08-2011, 01:38 PM   #61
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Re: How much does your van weigh?

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Originally Posted by BroncoHauler
This is like the Steelers versus the Packers but without any good commercials.
Man I was freakin out for a minute
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:10 PM   #62
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Re: How much does your van weigh?

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Originally Posted by j.whitbread
A company cannot arbitrarily increase the GVWR over what the manufacture rates a vehicle. UNLESS they spend the money for crash testing at that higher value. Even if you put in 10K lb. axles, the rating is still whatever the unit was crashed at to determine FMVSS Certification. (Seats tearing out of the floor, gas tanks leaking in the rollover, windshields retaining integrity, and a whole list of other items).

Anyone who publicly says their 10Klb units are over the rated GVWR are playing with fire should you ever be involved in an accident and a smart attorney starts sniffing around SMBF and sees your post. All they have to say is you overloaded your vehicle. End of story.
I would tend to believe this.

And not this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carringb
DOT recognizes whatever registration you pay for. Manufacturer GVWR is completely irrelevant in every state as far as DOT cares. Private/RV vehicles don't have to register weights, so again, doesn't matter.
You just can't buy a GVWR to suit your needs (ok show me some online dot documentation and not just opinion).
Ok, so you are not checked in your private vehicle, fine.

Think safety for christ sakes.
Your new 1 1/2 ton axle you installed on your previous 1 ton springs (for example) does not alone make your vehicle more sufficient to carry weight.
In fact those same springs will be working harder to keep the heavier axle in control.
You all can get away with what you may, but as a CDL driver and knowing/learned how a vehicle acts at max weight, I know better than to overload a vehicle.

It humors me on how well some say their non-commercial vehicles perform at max or beyond maximum weights.

Common sense, please!!!

Oh, certain states & highways require all to stop at scales should you be over a certain weight (16,000 comes to mind).

...JMHO and one I will live with.

Oh, and speaking of modifying vehicles, who agrees with welding up crush zones on frame members???
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:22 PM   #63
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Re: How much does your van weigh?

Here ya go:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348008ee2e

Notice there is not restriction abide by manufacture's GVWR, and while on the national highway network, and reasonable access roads, states cannot impose weigh limits stricter than allowed under this law.

I actually do have experience with this, because I am the safety manager at a commercial operator, and we do up-rate trucks. All of them. And I did this at prior employers as well, where we had our own fleet for transporting product. One example... we have a GMC TopKick 4500 allowed up to 80,000 pounds in Oregon. This has a factory GCWR of 26,000. We also have a special permit to run up to 23,000 pounds on a single axle. Our heavy trucks have unlimited permits, however we rarely need to go over 140,000 pounds.

I'm not aware of any states that have additional requirements for Recreational Vehicles, except some Canadian Provinces, which can enforce MFG ratings (if there is a state has additional requirements for non-commercial vehicles, I would certainly appreciate that information). And as I mentioned earlier, Oregon will not allow you to sell a vehicle with an uprated GVWR without placarding from an up-fitter registered with the DOT.

That said.... No matter what you do to your vehicle, or what you carry, you are still responsible as a driver to operate it in a safe manner. For us, this may mean driving below the speed limit, and may also require flaggers and escort vehicles, depending on the situation.


BTW - FMVSS only apply to new vehicles as they are sold. Once it leaves the dealer, that FMVSS generally does not apply. Some local statutes may reference specific elements of the FMVSS such as lighting requirements. But.... there must be a state law that references a specific standard. This is not referenced for any weight-related limitations in OR, and I'm not aware of other states that do. Now.... There are some performance criteria, such as stopping distances, which an operator would be best suited to abide by, in order to reduce liability. In fact, such performance criteria may be required by insurance policies, but not always.

I will also add that some personal vehicle insurance policies have exclusions for changes made to suspension systems or components. I had to change insurance once because of this. So it is important to review your policy and any exclusions that exist.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:05 PM   #64
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Re: How much does your van weigh?

BTW - I'm not trying to advocate or encourage folks to blatantly disregard ratings. Far from it. And on my personal van, I ensure that it can out-stop and out-handle a stock OEM vehicle. I just want to point out that it can be done, if appropriate precautions are taken. Vehicle dynamics is a complicated topic, and small changed can have adverse affects. Even something such as installing a high-mileage tire can significantly decrease stopping ability, but many folks do that every day because of the appeal of saving a few hundred bucks on operating costs.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:25 PM   #65
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Re: How much does your van weigh?

On a side note. You'd be surprised to know how many fire service emergency vehicles are over the original mfg's GVWR.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:10 PM   #66
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Re: How much does your van weigh?

OK carringb, you made your point on up-rating.
Cheers
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:23 AM   #67
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Re: How much does your van weigh?

Jeez, after this, who in their right mind would want to pick a fight with carringb?

Quote:
Take a look at Motorhome drivers (as far as vehicle control goes). Most are not qualified to operate that size vehicle...
... which is why they drive 10-15 mph below the speed limit on our local roads all summer long.
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:57 AM   #68
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Re: How much does your van weigh?

I like the data presented in the thread so much it has been added to the WIKI
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:48 PM   #69
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Re: How much does your van weigh?

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Originally Posted by dhally
I like the data presented in the thread so much it has been added to the WIKI
I like your table. It makes it easy to see at a glance what SMB vehicles are wieghing in at. Thanks!
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:32 PM   #70
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Re: How much does your van weigh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carringb
I actually do have experience with this, because I am the safety manager at a commercial operator, and we do up-rate trucks. All of them. And I did this at prior employers as well, where we had our own fleet for transporting product. One example... we have a GMC TopKick 4500 allowed up to 80,000 pounds in Oregon. This has a factory GCWR of 26,000. We also have a special permit to run up to 23,000 pounds on a single axle. Our heavy trucks have unlimited permits, however we rarely need to go over 140,000 pounds.

Our large fleet trucks are the same and some must carry permits for an overweight single axle. They moved to 3 axle vehicles because the permit was only good within our district but the fact remains, the conversions are much heavier than what the factory rates them as. The vehicles are then rebuilt to handle that weight. This is one of the reasons my van is off to Deavers soon. They are building the spring set to handle 12,500 total weight. SMB's new springs don't handle that and they didn't want to build a custom set of springs, so I'm headed to LA.
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