Vibration / misfire codes after replacement of serpentine belt, plugs, and other

[achop]

Originally Posted by JOELMUNOZ3

Glad to hear you got it figured out. I came to help and offer advice but everyone here has got you covered with such great info haha.

But wait! I could still use advice ;-)

Hypothetical: If you, or someone you love, just got her 2000 V10 plugs changed, but they only torqued the plugs to 11 ft lbs. (which I guess means they did it dry, not w/anti-sieze, but I didn't ask) ... how long would you feel comfortable driving the E350 before you started feeling nervous a plug might blow?

;-)

HAHA - heavy question. I'm headed out to the mysterious Moses Coulee in Eastern Washington for a long weekend. I sat on the van all week, not quite knowing what to do. It would be practically the full price of a sparkplug change (labor anyway) to retorque (story below)... and maybe I can do it myself in Seattle with a helper and compressed air.

Should I just be watchful of the CEL until I retorque to a more comfortable 22 ft-lbs or so?

thanks for anyone who cares to throw their 2 cents in ;-)

have a great weekend

anne

[JOELMUNOZ3]

I feel like there would be a noticeable ticking(exhaust leaking) sound prior too a blowout...but maybe not always. It seems like you have an war for noises. Luckily the engine is right under out feet almost lol. But u also dont think you'll have a need for an air compressor to re-torque them. Just be sure to get one of those telescopic magnets for when, if youre like me, drop bolt and stuff. I'm pretty sure its just 2 bolts per coul that hold them on.

[achop]

Originally Posted by JOELMUNOZ3

I feel like there would be a noticeable ticking(exhaust leaking) sound prior too a blowout...but maybe not always. It seems like you have an war for noises. Luckily the engine is right under out feet almost lol. But u also dont think you'll have a need for an air compressor to re-torque them. Just be sure to get one of those telescopic magnets for when, if youre like me, drop bolt and stuff. I'm pretty sure its just 2 bolts per coul that hold them on.

Thanks so much for the tips! I knew there was a reason I got that magnetic extending thingie

[JOELMUNOZ3]

Bleh, typing on my phone makes me miss typos. I know you said you have the shop maunual but I'll look up torque specs and talk to the senior master tech for any other recommendations that havent been listed here.

[JWA]

Originally Posted by achop

But wait! I could still use advice ;-)

Hypothetical: If you, or someone you love, just got her 2000 V10 plugs changed, but they only torqued the plugs to 11 ft lbs. (which I guess means they did it dry, not w/anti-sieze, but I didn't ask) ... how long would you feel comfortable driving the E350 before you started feeling nervous a plug might blow?

;-)

I personally would make sure her plugs were indeed torqued to my 23 ft/lbs, most likely going as far as removing the already-installed plugs to apply (or check for) nickel-based anti-seize. I'd not feel too nervous or impart too much concern to her about blowing a plug but would do this job for her soon.

Originally Posted by achop

HAHA - heavy question. I'm headed out to the mysterious Moses Coulee in Eastern Washington for a long weekend. I sat on the van all week, not quite knowing what to do. It would be practically the full price of a sparkplug change (labor anyway) to retorque (story below)... and maybe I can do it myself in Seattle with a helper and compressed air.

Checking just spark plug torque is pretty much the same as replacing the plugs so yeah if a for-hire shop is doing this after another shop installed them the charge would be much the same minus the cost of the plugs themselves. (The SP-479's selling for less than $4 each without much searching online.)

The only tool needed to torque plugs would be an 8mm socket for the COP bolts, a suitable plug socket and a reliable quality torque wrench with a setting range between 5 & 75 ft/lbs or something in an equivalent inch/pound rating. Ideally a "click" type wrench where the 22-23 ft/lbs rating is about the middle between min and max setting of the wrench. (I use a USA-made Wright Tools #3447, never used for anything other than Ford Modular Motor spark plug torque.) Don't forget the magnetic extendable thingie either--vitally important 'tis!

Changing plugs isn't that complicated but it can be a bit challenging especially the first time out. Believe it or not after just one time you'll be surprised how relatively "easy" it is, how the technical aspects are just plain simple. The challenges come with removing the COP connectors damage free and then getting tools into the plug recess for extracting and re-installation. Realistically this is why so many complain about or become concerned with this job, too many thinking there is just one magical cure-all tool that's perfect for the job.

I do mine with a 3/8" drive ratchet/socket set using extensions and occasionally a universal joint to get past a fuel rail in the way. A bright light is a great help as is the magnetic extendable thingie when you drop one of the COP bolts. I do 6 of my V8 plugs from the inside, first removing the passenger's seat for incredibly more working space. The front two (#'s 1 & 5) from under the hood but being anal and a bit claustrophobic the air cleaner housing is unbolted and moved out of the way. This is not necessary but makes it a lot easier--for me anyway.

Cleaning the plug recesses in the head can use compressed air OR a vacuum cleaner with small enough hose or attachments that fit into that recess. Compressed air is ideal, vacuum a close second choice.

FWIW I also change plugs every 50K miles because I simply do not believe they maintain their best performance much past that interval. Another benefit is that the plugs don't get a chance to adhere to the head threads as they tend to do at the claimed life expectancy of 100K miles. Some agree, some don't but over three different 5.4 motors I've NEVER experienced any plug change issues ever.

Originally Posted by achop

Should I just be watchful of the CEL until I retorque to a more comfortable 22 ft-lbs or so?

A plug that's become loose might give a small ticking noise as the compression gases escape the cylinder. If the plug is simply loose due lack of sufficient torque (for whatever reasons) its easy enough to correct that via proper torque. IF the plug threads are compromised and its due to blow out whether a warning noise is heard in advance is completely unpredictable. Many reports of a sudden event prove this but honestly I don't think your V10 is in any danger for now, most likely not at all even with the anemic current 11 ft/lbs torque; lots of Modular Motors running around with that setting.

All that being said the CEL isn't reliable relating to spark plug torque as there's nothing it monitors for that condition. IF any plug misfires the CEL would be triggered but that's typically NOT a condition of a loose plug. Best advice for now is when starting the engine listen for a new noise, if possible let it idle until close to operating temperature--if anything is "wrong" it should become evident by then.

Originally Posted by achop

thanks for anyone who cares to throw their 2 cents in ;-)

have a great weekend

anne

That's a bit more than just $0.02 worth but hoping its helpful all the same.

[carringb]

11 ft-lbs wouldn't mKE me worry about impending problems. It's within spec. But I'd probapy retoraue them in the next 30,000 miles.

FWIW - the V-10 has some strange harmonics. Every time I've had one loosen up, it was after extended runs (many minutes) at RPMs well over the factory shift points, and even beyond the factory rev limiter. With stock programming, I think you have little to nothing to worry about.

FWIW I've never used antiseize and never had the slightest issue getting a plug out.

[achop]

Originally Posted by JWA

That's a bit more than just $0.02 worth but hoping its helpful all the same.

Extremely, extremely helpful! Thank you.

[achop]

Originally Posted by JOELMUNOZ3

Bleh, typing on my phone makes me miss typos. I know you said you have the shop maunual but I'll look up torque specs and talk to the senior master tech for any other recommendations that havent been listed here.

Thanks, and manual says 7 to 14 foot pound range so 11 is just above the middle.

[achop]

Originally Posted by carringb

11 ft-lbs wouldn't mKE me worry about impending problems. It's within spec. But I'd probapy retoraue them in the next 30,000 miles.

FWIW - the V-10 has some strange harmonics. Every time I've had one loosen up, it was after extended runs (many minutes) at RPMs well over the factory shift points, and even beyond the factory rev limiter. With stock programming, I think you have little to nothing to worry about.

FWIW I've never used antiseize and never had the slightest issue getting a plug out.

I'm stock now, but tempted by 5-star Tuning


Your Insight is reassuring. I've just put a punishing 4 hours on the vehicle and another 4 to get out of here. That'll knock anything loose if it's going to go :-)

[achop]

I realized I also have a "hard start" issue that began immediately after the work done at Dukes (replace V10 plugs, replace serpentine belt, clean MAF). It happened the 2-3 times I started the van getting it home from the shop but I didn't think much of it. When it happened consistently, multiple times a day, during a 5-day trip (the first time I've driven the van since getting it back from the shop), I realized it was a new issue.

Now, my starter cranks for many seconds before the engine starts. It did this on every engine start, regardless of whether it was first start of the day, or whether the engine had been off for only a few minutes before restarting. It has never had a slow start like this in the 1+ year I've owned it. Even after parking it for months over winter, it started right up after starter cranking for about a second.

I tried the trick of 'priming' the fuel by turning the key on and off a few times before turning it all the way to start the engine. This worked thankfully - I didn't want to have to go check the gaps on my sparkplugs ;-). After experimentation, I could turn the key twice before turning a 3rd time to start, and the engine starts right away as expected. Given that priming the fuel before trying to start the engine seems to be an effective workaround, and I'm not experiencing any other unusual behavior while driving off-road or highway, I have to assume I'm losing initial fuel prime in the pump (do I sound like I know what I'm talking about? ;-)

Engineering wise, I'm not a big believer in coincidences (such as something coincidently fails simultaneous with other work being done), but it's not impossible that it's simply time to replace the stock fuel pump/filter (as opposed to the aux tank pump/filter).

Is there any other reason I might lose starting fuel prime based on the recent work (plugs, MAF, serpentine belt) ... including just knocking something loose nearby while doing that work? I haven't called the shop yet to ask them because I get poor customer service from the shop owner and would rather know as much as possible before calling them if it *might* be related to their work.

Thanks for any hints!

Anne

[Aside: I just spent about 5 days on super (sharp) rocky roads in the Colockum and Whiskey Dick Wildlife areas in E. Washington. Don't have Agile RIP kit yet, and didn't air down because I haven't gotten an air compressor yet, but with my fairly new KO2s and going slowly, all was good - no slashed sidewalls or anything. Tons of van shakeup. Also, more wild rolling left and right than I would have expected when travelling slowly over even rather short ~3" obstacles on one side or the other. Anyway, listening for clicking the whole way, I was gratified no sparkplug blew ;-)]