Vibration Saga

[killacks]

Originally Posted by capnkurt

Killacks,

Where in SD did you get the balancing (while on the vehicle) done?

Clarence Brown Alignment in Convoy/Kearny Mesa area.

Originally Posted by Kibo

OK, I feel like an idiot now. When putting tires on my Cayenne, the shop kept talking about 'Road Force balancing' and implied that it had to be done with the wheel installed on the vehicle in the position in which it would be used. Now that I watch the video on Hunter's site, I see that it's done independent of the vehicle using a load roller for simulation. Sorry for the confusion, just a misunderstanding on my part!

My question about tire rotations was from the assumption that balancing on the vehicle would mean that the wheel/tire balance may be compensating for vibrations induced by that wheel's location--implying that if you were to rotate it to another position on the vehicle (or perhaps even rotate its orientation relative to the axle), the vibration compensation wouldn't be accurate?

Going back to the OP's post, I wonder whether the local shop's inability to balance the wheels may have been due to the aftermarket wheels. Do you know whether they're hubcentric? It seems plausible that the shop used a balancer with a centering cone, such that the wheels and tires are balanced around the centerbore; but if your wheel isn't hubcentric (or using a hubcentric adapter), they would be lugcentric once mounted since aftermarket wheels typically use cone lugs to center the wheel as they're tightened in the star pattern. Just surmising...

Wheels are aftermarket. Brand is Moto Metal and they are hub centric.

I had mixed results with Road Force balancing at two different Discount Tire locations, both of which used the Hunter machines (I had checked the shared links as well to assure myself I’d found a shop that used the most updated equipment available... spinning my own wheels ) Alas, the saga continued

Prior to the on-car balancing at Clarence Brown, they told me that if the wheels are rotated in any way the balance will be comprised.

I wonder if 5k tire rotations are as necessary. Maybe/hopefully the superior balance will contribute to more even tread wear??

[JWA]

Originally Posted by killacks

Prior to the on-car balancing at Clarence Brown, they told me that if the wheels are rotated in any way the balance will be comprised.

I wonder if 5k tire rotations are as necessary. Maybe/hopefully the superior balance will contribute to more even tread wear??

Even perfectly balanced tire/wheel assemblies would wear differently due almost 100% to their position on the vehicle, fronts vs rears. Its great to maximize the pre-weight adding step to better balance the assembly which I'm glad to see is supposedly part of every tire installation. Actually that's nothing new going all the way back to when pedestal-mounted bubble balancers were hi-tech.

The goal has always been achieving the best static balance before adding weights according to a dynamic test. If that dynamic test were achieved with the tire/wheel mounted on the vehicle that'd be best I think---rotating tires would require re-balancing the tires to assure they're still as vibration-free as possible in their new locations.

Good discussion!

[Gooseberry]

I fought a vibration for a few years and it was the tires. Sade to say I used the tire shop twice for cost and both sets gave me issues on two vehicles. Last shop does off road warranty and no issues at all

[wahoo]

Many years ago I had a new F 250 that had a vibration. Turned out to be Firestone tires were out of round. Took it to a shop that dynamically shaved the tires on vehicle. Probably not an issue these days with computer controlled equipment and manufacturing processes. Just a thought to pass along.

[Twoxentrix]

I wonder what/how the tire beads would have contributed in these cases??? They seem to becoming more popular these days, so the market seems to be embracing them. Only time(s) I’ve ever had to contend with a vibration issue is after caking mud on the tires and then hitting the pavement- nothing a brush and water didn’t rectify...so no real incentive for me to give them a shot.

[killacks]

I’ll likely go a bit further than a standard 5k rotation and monitor wear along the way. I suppose there’s no getting around front vs. rear wear patterns.

I saw some YouTube vids on tire shaving. One in particular was for a big F350 with 35s and a lift or something like that. It was performed in tandem with an on-car balance. I was intrigued enough to give it a try had the opportunity or necessity presented itself.

My previous BFG KO2s were purchased at the same shop as the current Toyo AT’s. Quality control is worth constant re-evaluation, but I ‘ve purchased several sets for different vehicles there over the years with no issue. These were the first AT’s, though, and they are not an off road shop by any means FWIW

With the previous BFG’s, I actually tried tire beads ( forgot to mention that in OP). It was the last straw before ponying up to try new tires. They didn’t improve my situation, though. The brand was Counteract and I used 8 oz. per tire, I think, per their recommendation. They were small glass beads, and I used the method of replacing the valve stem, and pouring them through there since the tires were already mounted. That was pretty tedious to say the least. Nice customer service from that company, BTW

[shenrie]

Originally Posted by killacks

10. Visited Agile… I had a wild hunch that custom tuning the shocks could help. Thought maybe tires were skipping down the road. They inspected and then threw on a set of stock wheels and tires. It was smooth! Then they put my wheels and tires back on. Likely an out of balance wheel or two…Cost of labor

9 times outta 10 vibration from wheel tire combo is the tires, but it can definitely be the wheels too. If it were me I’d source a set of different wheels and try the tires on them and gauge from there.

[killacks]

^Yes, I agree this is a logical approach at this point.. and probably earlier on as well. I continue to bounce around the idea of swapping wheels with these same tires but not yet sure I could get it done economically, time-wise and cost-wise. New wheels vs. used wheels vs. borrowing wheels somehow (which could likely lead to replacing wheels) plus being in and out of the shop a couple times. I might invest in some stock 17” wheels if the right opportunity comes along, but I love the aesthetic of my current wheels. Even shopping around for new wheels kept me coming back to a nearly identical style.

Another piece on info that is worth mentioning, is that a few years ago my van survived a glancing blow in a minor car accident. That was detailed in another post. There was some contact with one of the wheels, but it was determined to be cosmetic. It was repainted by the shop that performed all the repairs.

I always suspected this particular wheel could be THE culprit, and that’s not a completely inaccurate assumption. The shop that performed the on-car balance said that particular wheel/tire assembly required 5 oz. to balance, which they said was surprisingly a lot. But, there were also two other wheel/tire assemblies that were off balance.

Following my visit to Agile, I had Discount Tire Road Force balance only that wheel, before they later did that for all four. It didn’t alleviate the vibration (forgot to mention that in my OP). Side note: I think the quality of the Road Force balancing service can vary depending on the technician. Anyhow, at that same Discount Tire and at the original tire shop where I purchased the tires, I shared my suspicion about the wheels being out-of-balance on each visit. All kept saying they’d have seen an imbalance, visually, if that were the case. I always took that with a grain of salt.

— — —

I think my greatest lesson learned up til now has been that I really love this vehicle. I confess that I’ve likely overthought and underthought key details throughout. I appreciate all the thoughtful responses to these posts. This is a downright therapeutic experience. Thanks for the help folks

[shenrie]

Maybe try a pick and pull yard? Ours only charge 25 a wheel (35 for alloys) with no tires and if they have tires they charge you more but you can return the tires after you have them pulled off the wheels. With all the f150’s in the yards your bound to be able to find something worth trying. We can also return the wheels if they end up being bent or something but you don’t get cash, only credit. I typically make a template round out of some 1/4” fiberboard and take it with me to check for bends or flat spots.

Either way, good luck with your endeavors man. I hate chasing issues like that.

[brp]

Just reading through this forum, as I'm trying to learn about the importance of hub/lug centric wheels.

Anyway, an idea that came to mind is Centramatic Balancers...they mount between the wheel and the hub and constantly actively balance the wheel. I have never used them and can't vouch for them, but their concept seems to have some validity. Just an FYI and glad your balance issues seems to be in check