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DonnaDevol 09-29-2018 04:15 PM

New transit with Quigley 4x4 vs E350 V10 with UJOR?
 
I'm in position to purchase one of two vehicles.
Newer, more expensive, less robust (am I giving myself away?) Transit 350 with Quigley 4x4 vs. 2010 E350 V10 UJOR, 35", Aluminess bumpers all around.
Both have advantages and I'd like to get opinion of SMB community. Vehicle is intended for extended camping adventures including BLM lands but not Moab-level trails.
Vehicles haven't been upfitted with a lot of bling...yet...so mostly looking for opinions on the raw vehicle.
I need to pick one.
1. 2018 HR transit with Quigley 4x4. Primary options are ambulance package, eco-boost engine, and cruise control. 0 miles; $56k
2. 2010 V10 E350 EB with $30k of UJOR upfits including 4x4, lockers, Aluminess front, rear, and nerf. Not abused. 90k miles; $40k. Most miles were by carpet installer, pre-UJOR, not an adventurer
Thoughts?

kreese 09-29-2018 04:47 PM

I did #1 except went with QuadVan 4x4 instead of Quigley. My outdoor adventure plans are similar to yours. My 2018 Ford Transit HR EL is now in production at SMB. Couldíve chosen any platform I wanted. This one is perfect for me.

larrie 09-29-2018 05:27 PM

Are you planning on outfitting the interior yourself or having a company like Sportsmobile do it? Either van will do what you want. The V10 has lots of miles left in it. I would take the 2010 and and put the dollar difference into making the interior comfortable for backcountry travel and living.

BroncoHauler 09-29-2018 05:30 PM

Make sure to get Eric's input (86Scotty), since he's had many a van, including E350's and a Transit.




Herb

DonnaDevol 09-29-2018 05:53 PM

continued thread Transit HR Quigley vs E350 UJOR
 
Thanks, Friends!
Not sure I'm posting responses in the correct locations.
Larrie: I will probably hire capable mechanics/electricians/carpenters to do interior upfit. I used to have tools to do it myself but...you know, divorce happens. I'm also leaning towards the V10.

DonnaDevol 09-30-2018 07:24 AM

Responding to Kreese
 
Thanks, Kreese! I would love to see pics of your fitout after you get it back from SMB. I didn't see any photos of Quadvan transit conversions so wasn't sure they did them. Would be interested to know the specs on your Quad.
SMB conversions really hold their value so may finish my upfit with them.

86Scotty 09-30-2018 10:03 AM

They both have distinct advantages and disadvantages. If you are doing mild offroading I would definitely go for the Transit. Disclaimer: MILD offroading is all that 99% of us will ever do in a van. They're simply too big/tall/expensive/etc. for heavy off-roading. The two biggest reasons are fuel mileage (It will be a solid 5 mpg more with the Transit, maybe more) and ON-road ride. A Transit drives like a minivan. It is totally smooth and comfortable on the road, I mean sedan-like, not truck like. The V-10 with Ujoint will be a beast capable of getting you anywhere but is not going to ride as well as a Transit on the road, or be as smooth and quiet. The Ecoboost has the same power as the V10 practically, and is far more than you need unless you are towing heavy things.

I could go a lot deeper but I'll just say this. Many won't like it and that's fine. My reputation here is well known as an E-series van fan who bought a Transit hesitantly (as a work vehicle) and more or less fell in love. Here it is: Time marches on. The E-series has a lot of plusses that the Transit (or Sprinter or Promaster) may never live up to. It is essentially bulletproof. It is body on frame and all of it's issues have been worked out of it since it's been the same for 25 years. We're in year number 4 for the North American Transit and upgrades and improvements are being made left and right.
Sadly for us all the E-series is disappearing. Your investment in an E-series will not have the staying power that an investment in a Transit will have. Do you care? That is the question. The Transit is the new E-series. Ford isn't going back at this point. They are selling Transits like nothing else to folks like us and fleets, service industry, shuttles, etc. It's going to get harder to sell an E-series and after a few weeks driving a Transit you will definitely see the datedness of an E-series. The layout, controls, mirrors, headroom, climate control, suspension, transmission, efficiency, and virtually everything else are worlds better.

I've rambled on plenty. I look at E-series every day and will probably buy another for something or other but it will be for a specific purpose when I do. Just make sure of your purpose.

There is one more person who frequents this forum who is a fan of both and has made the leap to Transit. He is far more technically savvy than me and his input might help you out. Hopefully he will chime in. Where are you Michael Gabriel (MGmetalworks)?

Good luck!

:b5:

86Scotty 09-30-2018 10:15 AM

Other thoughts worth mentioning. The Quigley Transit adds 2" of lift and worlds of capability. From what I've heard it drives and handles no differently than a 2wd Transit.

GO DRIVE ALL 3!!! (2wd Transit because they're easy to find, 4wd Transit and Ujoint). 15 minutes in each will probably narrow down your thinking completely.

I have a Sportsmobile for sale. It's a 7.3 Quigley and a rather nice one. It's owner wants something quieter, newer and less likely to need maintenance/attention. She borrowed my Transit and used it for the last month while I've had hers for sale. She is now trying to buy my Transit. I'm probably not going to sell though.

mgmetalworks 09-30-2018 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86Scotty (Post 236567)

There is one more person who frequents this forum who is a fan of both and has made the leap to Transit. He is far more technically savvy than me and his input might help you out. Hopefully he will chime in. Where are you Michael Gabriel (MGmetalworks)?

Good luck!

:b5:

For me...Transit, no question. The Quigley Transits drive almost identically to a stock Transit. The steering racks in a 2wd are different than the 4wd and the steering feels a little lighter/easier in a Quigley but other than that, they drive the same.

I have a couple lingering E-series projects in the queue but dozens of Transit, Sprinter, Promaster projects lining up and no end in sight. The E-series still has a following but the more modern vans are accelerating in popularity.

arctictraveller 09-30-2018 08:21 PM

I'm a die hard E series fan, but I want my van to be able to do some hard core wheeling if I choose. I do a lot of off road miles, and it goes pretty much anywhere it fits, but at the cost of a much harsher ride, somewhat vague steering, and less room than a Transit. Still, it's worth it to me.

DonnaDevol 09-30-2018 08:59 PM

Great forum! Great advice!
My current thinking:
1. I've bought a one-way ticket to check out the E350...I'll post pics/specs if I get it. It is totally worthy as a rock-crawler, lightly used, and has some very nice upfits as a camper/road traveler. I really like exploring forest service roads and BLM lands even though I'm not much into 4-wheeling for 4-wheeling's sake. Nice thing about older van is I don't worry about minor dings and scratches.
2. The transit with Quigley or Quadvan 4x4 is still a great option and the reviews are mostly really good. Would probably satisfy 95% of my needs and desires.

shenrie 10-01-2018 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86Scotty (Post 236567)
...Your investment in an E-series will not have the staying power that an investment in a Transit will have.

I agree with most everything you said other than what I quoted. Only because Iíve seen the prices for what I bought in 2012 almost double for what I paid for my van. That could very well taper off and bottom out if the vanlife trend dies out, but thereís something about these 4wd econolines that people love. I donít consider any of them any worse of an investment than any other modified vehicle. Hell some of the civics Iíve owned are so popular now I regret selling some of them for what I did. Wouldnít have guessed such a mass produced car would ever be worth anything, but I have people trying to buy my old pos every time I drive it. It floors me I have a list of people lined up to buy an 1989 car when Iím done with it

That said the eco boost setup is nice. I havenít driven the transit but have plenty of time in the f150s. Are the two comparable at all or is the transit completely different?

SteelheadJones 10-01-2018 01:14 PM

Maybe MG's modesty kept him from mentioning it, so I'll do it for him...

Michael, what about your Expovans 4x4 Transit conversion as another option?

Donna if I were considering a Transit 4x4, I know MG's is the way I would go.

mgmetalworks 10-01-2018 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelheadJones (Post 236659)
Maybe MG's modesty kept him from mentioning it, so I'll do it for him...

Michael, what about your Expovans 4x4 Transit conversion as another option?

Donna if I were considering a Transit 4x4, I know MG's is the way I would go.

Yes, we will have a working 4x4 conversion for the Transit soon-ish. Not ready to start taking orders yet though. Lots of cool parts have been showing up from the machine shop and I've been busy finalizing the details of the custom steering knuckle. Lots to do still but it is starting to come together. Can't wait to show it off!

86Scotty 10-01-2018 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shenrie (Post 236628)
I agree with most everything you said other than what I quoted. Only because I’ve seen the prices for what I bought in 2012 almost double for what I paid for my van. That could very well taper off and bottom out if the vanlife trend dies out, but there’s something about these 4wd econolines that people love. I don’t consider any of them any worse of an investment than any other modified vehicle. Hell some of the civics I’ve owned are so popular now I regret selling some of them for what I did. Wouldn’t have guessed such a mass produced car would ever be worth anything, but I have people trying to buy my old pos every time I drive it. It floors me I have a list of people lined up to buy an 1989 car when I’m done with it

That said the eco boost setup is nice. I haven’t driven the transit but have plenty of time in the f150s. Are the two comparable at all or is the transit completely different?

I can't disagree, I like E-series too, but I think the values have started to go down. That's just my opinion from what I've seen. Actually, though, I quickly racked up 100k in my Transit and the value of it has gone way down too. Also, of course, it depends on where you are. You NW and W folks have higher values on your vans anyway. Oh, and this, I think the popularity of the 4wd Sprinters is what will drive all other van values down. They aren't for me but it seems everyone is jumping on that bandwagon and lots of E-series are getting sold lately.

I have not driven an F150 with an Ecoboost ever, but I'd sure love to! :d3:

Grampswrx 10-01-2018 10:19 PM

Iíd get a sprinter 4x4 but Iíd be too scared to take it anywhere. There arenít enough mb dealers or shops let alone sprinter ones if you ever had a problem. A ford on the other hand could be fixed anywhere in the Americaís pretty much.

Spr 10-02-2018 09:34 AM

All the points mentioned are great. For what itís worth I often think a high top transit would be great (this was decided after seeing 86scottys van in W Virginia) but then I drive my E series and think Iím crazy for even letting the thought of getting a high top cross my mind. With that said we have the pop top so when we make camp I can stand on the van. There are so many pros and cons for both but the adventures weíve had off road are some of the best vacation memories I have and wouldnít trade them for anything.
Also, I absolutely love the way the e series drives. Itís not my daily driver and I donít expect it to act like such. Our van has seen almost every state in the US and it still amazes me how much I love driving it.
The high top transit (or similar) is also amazing and just so easy to move around in etc. totally different in so many respects.
To Ericís point of a lot of e series getting sold from what Iíve seen most are getting sold right away which tells me there is still a market for them....
Also keep in mind as these van life millennials in sprinters, transits and promasters all grow up and have kids Iím sure there will be a lot of them for sale as well.
At the end of the day itís an automobile and values will depreciate. We are all crazy and take the risk of that. The experiences gained far out way the potential financial loss. Knowing that itís up to you what type of experiences you want to gain. Either way you canít go wrong... I say buy both :-)
Shaun
2010 RB SMB 4x4

Flux 10-02-2018 09:55 AM

Great, you guys are making me second guess my 2 year old purchase of my E series...........I admit there is a bit of envy when I see the next gen vans and how they are appointed.

SteelheadJones 10-02-2018 01:30 PM

Nah Flux, with where you live, when the siren song of the desert or Baja calls you'll be glad you went with an Agile E350!

Flux 10-02-2018 02:43 PM

No regrets at all. And I can say the Agile is really great on the highway. But I do admire the modern vans for what they offer. But my van right now is everything I wanted it to be......except for the stuff I have yet to add in my build, bumpers and finished interior etc.


Most important part I think is getting a van that best suits your needs and then using the hell out of it!! There may come a day when I have a transit or sprinter along with my E series in the driveway. Never say never.

TomH 10-02-2018 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shenrie (Post 236628)
...Iíve seen the prices for what I bought in 2012 almost double for what I paid for my van. That could very well taper off and bottom out if the vanlife trend dies out...

It could also reverse course if SMB hits a home run with the E350 cutaway based Classic. If folks can get a new vehicle, they will have no incentive to pay top dollar for old ones.

Of course, it remains to be seen whether the cabin of this vehicle can withstand the stresses of Class 4 trails. If they don't actually have that leak problem solved, forget it.

OurayMark 10-07-2018 04:14 PM

The body-on-frame E350 is of course the most rugged, off-road capable and coolest looking choice! We went with the high roof unibody 4x4 option to get us through snow and to remote forest service campgrounds. We chose a new unibody because none of the tough trails near us (Ouray and Moab) could be traversed by any van-sized vehicle no mater how ruggedized. Instead we use the 4x4 van for the moderate trails, and a rock-crawler Jeep and e pedal-assist mountain bikes for the really tough stuff. We carry the mountain bikes and our kayaks vertically on a rack behind the van, and thus can go almost anywhere.

It seems to me that there are very few roads that are in between what a unibody 4x4 can do, and those that require a swb Jeep or FJ. If I am wrong, could somebody please tell me where the cool trails are that can handle a full size van and require E350 ruggedness, but don't require small, short wheel base vehicles? We are going to do the 100 mile White Rim loop road in Canyonlands NP in a few weeks. Is that such a road? While we'd like to take our 4x4 SMB Sprinter on this overnight overland expo, I think we should take a Jeep and tent. Does anyone know if White Rim is one of those in-between roads?

(P.S. we chose the 4x4 Sprinter rather than the Quigly transit because I am about 6'2". If I could stand up in a HR Transit, that probably would have been my first choice)


Thanks - OurayMark

DonnaDevol 10-07-2018 06:16 PM

I love this forum and appreciate all the solid advice.
It was a REALLY tough choice (Price of both the new Transit HR Quigley and 2010 V10 Ujoint were discounted from original quotes).
I ended up buying the E350 for the following reasons:
1. This is my 1st adventure van and I'll probably put some dings in it that will give me heartache if brand new.
2. Owner was retired AF jet engine mechanic, now a carpenter, who kept it in MINT condition. He knew when to hire pros but was also capable to do some interior mods.
3. Only 7k miles on the conversion...so I paid for the conversion and the van was thrown in for 'free'.
4. I can use it now as a camper without sinking more $ into it...that will allow me time to figure out my must-haves. In fact, I stopped at Bass Pro Shop and Walmart after picking it up and spent the night in a dispersed camping area in Pisgah Forest on the drive home.
5. I like the idea of bullet-proof even if it means sacrificing mileage and a van I can stand up in 24/7...I'll ask about the pros/cons of raised hard-top vs penthouse pop-top in future thread.
6. Price
Hopefully the photos comes through... here she is...as well as a view from the summit where I hiked the day after purchase/maiden camping voyage
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...cOTM3NoozJcF9l
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...5D2WP7EsFZc8Nq
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...3aFdLcdhEhPfAz

kreese 10-07-2018 06:29 PM

Your photos didnít come through because they require a Google account which I donít have.

Too bad - I would love to see it.

DonnaDevol 10-07-2018 06:44 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Trying to resend photos

kreese 10-07-2018 06:47 PM

Awesome photos. Congratulations!

OurayMark 10-07-2018 06:51 PM

Congratulations DD!
 
Your new van looks beautiful AND tough DD! I am sure you will have an absolute blast with it. I like the ARB lockers. I have those on my Jeep with beefed up 1-ton Terraflex axles. They have gotten me out of some sticky situations. I wish I had ARB lockers on my 4x4 van too.

TomH 10-07-2018 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OurayMark (Post 237129)
The body-on-frame E350 is of course the most rugged, off-road capable and coolest looking choice! We went with the high roof unibody 4x4 option to get us through snow and to remote forest service campgrounds. We chose a new unibody because none of the tough trails near us (Ouray and Moab) could be traversed by any van-sized vehicle no mater how ruggedized. Instead we use the 4x4 van for the moderate trails, and a rock-crawler Jeep and e pedal-assist mountain bikes for the really tough stuff. We carry the mountain bikes and our kayaks vertically on a rack behind the van, and thus can go almost anywhere.

It seems to me that there are very few roads that are in between what a unibody 4x4 can do, and those that require a swb Jeep or FJ. If I am wrong, could somebody please tell me where the cool trails are that can handle a full size van and require E350 ruggedness, but don't require small, short wheel base vehicles? We are going to do the 100 mile White Rim loop road in Canyonlands NP in a few weeks. Is that such a road? While we'd like to take our 4x4 SMB Sprinter on this overnight overland expo, I think we should take a Jeep and tent. Does anyone know if White Rim is one of those in-between roads?

(P.S. we chose the 4x4 Sprinter rather than the Quigly transit because I am about 6'2". If I could stand up in a HR Transit, that probably would have been my first choice)


Thanks - OurayMark

The White Rim Trail has been completed by 2WD WV vans as well as by Jay Shapiro's custom 40'+ F-650 based EcoRoamer. See pics here.

If you have the funds, you might want to look at towing an Adventure Trailer behind the Jeep. They will go anywhere the Jeep can go. They come in tent pop-ups as well as teardrops, both with exterior rear kitchen built in. See here.

Once on a visit at SMB-W, I saw a Sprinter in for maintenance. It was yellow and was towing a Jeep Rubicon painted the exact same color. The owner said she and her husband live on the west slope of the Sierra and always tow the Jeep when on outings. They go as far as they can with the Sprinter, park it, then take the Jeep. She stated the MPG hit for towing was negligible (her claim-not mine) and that they noticed no acceleration loss when passing on uphills in the Sierra (again-her claim-not mine).

Of course, a train of Sprinter, Jeep, Adventure Trailer would be illegal most everywhere, though once or twice I've seen:
https://i1.wp.com/www.crappie.com/cr...t-100_0313.jpg

kreese 10-07-2018 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomH (Post 237143)
Once on a visit at SMB-W, I saw a Sprinter in for maintenance. It was yellow and was towing a Jeep Rubicon painted the exact same color. The owner said she and her husband live on the west slope of the Sierra and always tow the Jeep when on outings. They go as far as they can with the Sprinter, park it, then take the Jeep. She stated the MPG hit for towing was negligible (her claim-not mine) and that they noticed no acceleration loss when passing on uphills in the Sierra (again-her claim-not mine).

TomW it sounds like you're talking about this yellow SMB Sprinter+Jeep from member @fremebe. She posted three videos of her setup recently - pretty unique and worth watching.
https://youtu.be/ohbIJ-Ne6K8

SteelheadJones 10-07-2018 07:48 PM

Donna that thing is sweet! Had you posted the pictures first I would have said, "No brainer, the E350!" Congratulations!

TomH 10-07-2018 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kreese (Post 237145)
TomW it sounds like you're talking about this yellow SMB Sprinter+Jeep from member @fremebe. She posted three videos of her setup recently - pretty unique and worth watching.
https://youtu.be/ohbIJ-Ne6K8

I'm TomH, but yea..that's her. (Or for my grammar police friends, That is she.)

86Scotty 10-07-2018 09:38 PM

Very nice Donna! Congrats. You're gonna love it.

:b5:

TomH 10-07-2018 09:52 PM

Yes, Donna. That is one sweet rig! Congratulations!

OurayMark 10-07-2018 10:22 PM

Hi TomH!
Thanks for your advice on the White Rim trail and on Towing a Jeep with a Sprinter.
I am a somewhat of a manifestation of DonnaD’s fears in that I don’t want to damage our new SMB Sprinter on trails beyond its (or my) comfort zone. I’d rather scratch our heavily built Jeep than the Sprinter. Also, with Terraflex built-up one-ton axles, HD Atlas t-case, 37” MTs on military double beadlocks, etc., the Jeep is much less likely to suffer mechanical or underbody damage. But then the Jeep doesn’t have an indoor shower, comfy beds, Espar heat and hot water, etc! So which do we take on White Rim? Given these concerns which would you take Tom?

In the first attached photos you can see the bikes and kayaks we often haul on the back of our SMB. In the second photo you can see how much higher our rock-crawler Jeep is than our Sprinter hitch. (As an aside, you can also see our 1950 Willys Overland Jeep pickup body mounted on low-mileage Daimler Chrysler Jeep mechanicals and stretched frame in that same photo).

While I am a retired geologist, I worked as a 4x4 mechanic during HS and college to support my Jeep habit. Nevertheless, I appreciate advice about successfully towing lifted Jeeps with Sprinters. I’ll need a safe way to account for the height difference, and an electric brake system in the Jeep to keep it legal. Then I’ll need a quick and safe may to mount our kayaks and our e mountain bikes to the Jeep!

When the kids were still small we towed a fifth wheel trailer with a 4x4 truck. Now that we are retired ‘empty nesters’, we like to travel ‘light’ whenever we can, in campers no bigger than a parking space. In general we prefer not to tow anything. Hence our 19.5’ SMB camper van. But it would be nice to tow the Jeep sometimes. Definitely not a fifth wheel AND a boat like in your photo though TomH!

We retired to Ouray, Colorado, right in the heart of the youngest and most rugged mountains in the State. Ouray calls itself “the Jeep Capital of the World”, and the “Switzerland of America”. I see lots of Jeeps in town towing adventure trailers. But interestingly, I have never seen even one adventure trailer on the more rugged old mining trails heading to remote high-country camping. I am not saying a skilled driver couldn’t pull one up over a five-foot cliff on a trail (see third photo) or around a super tight switch back, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that. Also a lot of our trails are marked “short wheel base, high clearance 4x4s only”. So I think we’ll just pack the back of the TJ with camp gear on the toughest trails. I am intrigued, however, by AEV’s SMB-like camper Jeep and some of the roof-top tents for Jeeps and Land Rovers!

A final concern about adding another toy (i.e. an adventure trailer) is that we built a tall 5-car garage into our retirement home for toys, but we have already accumulated six 4x4 vehicles! So where would we put an adventure trailer ;) ?

Thanks again for your tips TomH!

https://imgur.com/Im3PGyD

https://imgur.com/Tf8EaA6

https://imgur.com/a/V8meRTD

Pschitt 10-08-2018 03:47 AM

Congrats for your purchase, you'll be happy with it!

Orv 10-08-2018 11:07 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by TomH (Post 237143)
Of course, a train of Sprinter, Jeep, Adventure Trailer would be illegal most everywhere, though once or twice I've seen:
https://i1.wp.com/www.crappie.com/cr...t-100_0313.jpg

Many (though not all) states will allow a fifth wheel and a conventional trailer like that. Trains of two conventional trailers are no-nos, of course.

The CHPs were decidedly unhappy with this arrangement:


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