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yondermountain 12-18-2010 11:35 AM

how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
ive been debating the smb purchase for a while now. we had a westy syncro and really wanted an smb after we sold it. im also debating the motor- ive run my own biodiesel in a cummins for years and had intentions of running it in a 7.3 or 6.0 smb. the 7.3's are getting older and im starting to warm up to the idea of a newer 6.0, kinda wondering whos got higher milage 6.0's particularly 06-2010 years?
i know the whole which engine thing has been discussed at length in many threads, but i wanted to get an idea of how many miles folks have on their rigs?
also, do you think the 08-2010's would be more reliable than the 05-07's or the same?
maybe this should have been posted in engine/drivetrain, but i thought i might get more responses here!
thanks, jas

saline 12-18-2010 12:20 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Although mine is an 04 (not the years you inquired) I have 46k miles and had two minor issues after we bought it. I attribute it to the SMB sitting for 6 months prior to us purchasing it. As I have read elsewhere, the later the model, especially 07' up 6.0l's have the best record. There are things you can do on any model year on a 6.0l to help with reliability.

bitburger 12-18-2010 03:25 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
I have an 08 with roughly 36k miles with absolutely no 6.0 engine issues.

That said, given the reputation, I got the 200k warranty extension.

Blackeye 12-18-2010 04:00 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
We've got an '08 and have enjoyed (really enjoyed) almost 74,000 miles with the 6.0. We have not experienced any problems whatsoever.

We did obtain the transferrable 200k FORD Extended Service Plan on the diesel, just in case.

BTW, our rig is still available. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5797

UJOINT 12-18-2010 05:12 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
I'm at 87K. 2006. I've only had a vacuum pump & a leaking fuel regulator. Oil changed every 5K, fuel filters every 10. ----Chris

daveb 12-18-2010 06:39 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
The 6.0 engine has a few flaws that can be improved on provided you want to spend the bucks. After the Ford warrentee is up, I plan to upgrade what I can. Mine is an 06 with 54,000 on it. Ive had problems with the EGR system and I lost the ICP sensor that led to a tow. I also had an oil leak that required the engine to be pulled. [Edit] Whoops forgot about the blown injector!
Here is a link to methods that improve the 6.0's preformance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW7JEHLYyJ4

Ford_6L_E350 12-18-2010 07:10 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
I looked at the video DaveB refers to in the above post. Can't say I agree with what he says. The vans are different than the pickups and what he says may apply to pickups.

With the pickups at 325HP they have higher cylinder pressures, higher EGT's, higher exhaust volumes, etc.

The vans have 235HP, same as the International trucks with the same engine. Leave it stock (no tuners) and it will be quite a good engine. While Ford pickups have experienced problems with headgaskets and the need for studs, I haven't heard of stock vans with the same problems. Pickups that have been modified for more horsepower have even bigger problems.

The EGR cooler is a potential weak spot, and if mine fails it will be replaced with a Bulletproof Diesel EGR cooler.

The biggest concerns in a van are clean oil, clean fuel, MotorCraft filters and a way to monitor ECT (Engine Coolant Temp) and EOT (Engine Oil Temp). If the oil temp is more than 15 degrees above the coolant temp (in normal driving, not just after pulling a hill) then you need to have the oil cooler replaced. A coolant filter may help keep the oil cooler from failing, it can't hurt.

Some aftermarket filters have caused serious engine problems. It is not worth saving a few dollars on a filter only to have thousands of dollars in engine repairs needed as a result.

Many 6.0 owners use a fuel additive. I've used TCW-III 2 stroke oil or Opti-Lube Summer Blend, both make the engine quieter and give some peace of mind.

Long idle times are known to cause problems with this engine. It has been a big problem with ambulances the idle for long times. Minimize idle time, start it up and drive gently until it is fully warmed up. And drive it at least 20 minutes to warm it up. Avoid short trips to cut down on condensation build up in the engine.

To summarize:

- Most of the reported 6.0 problems have been in pickups, not in vans
- Keep it stock and use OEM filters and regular maintainance
- Use it and enjoy it, most owners have few or no problems.

Mike

saline 12-18-2010 08:03 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
^ What Mike said.
With the addition that there is talk of late regarding the Ford Gold coolant could be contributing to the clogged oil cooler issues. Some are switching over to what International uses, ELC coolant. The theory is that the Ford Gold is gelled from high temps in the EGR cooler and then getting clogged in the coolant side of the oil cooler. It's only theory but it can't help to use what International uses, they made the motor.

daveb 12-18-2010 09:39 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Mike I am not a diesel mechanic and only listen to what our shop people say. I agree that tuners used in excess (like many pickup owners do) can be a major problem with any 6.0 PSD and is probably why it gets such a bad name. I don't plan to try to get massive power out of my engine but a mild tuner might be OK to use. It's how or when you use them. I still don't plan to add one at this time. The mods I would like to add are the EGR upgrade similar to this https://www.bulletproofdiesel.com/Articles.asp?ID=146 , and a coolant filter, but if for what ever reason I do blow a head gasket, I will upgrade that end as well. As far as the turbo, most of the problems were resolved (from what Ford has told me and what that guy states in another link) and I haven't heard of many failures by those who have newer engines. BTW the link I supplied is really about hard core upgrading for power but the guy has some good info as well. There are several other posts his company made that make sense and why I supplied the link. I'm tired of everybody trashing the 6.0 PSD. In another post he makes a point that the engine is actually a good motor provided it's upgraded correctly. But the fact remains, the 7.3 doesn't have the issues the 6.0 has had in the past. Everytime I take my rig in to the shop for something, Ford themselves are saying something like "Oh they used to use...Oh that part has been replaced by a better part...etc". I still think the 6.0 is a good powerplant especially the newer engines. As I've stated in the past, I watch my warm up and cool down procedure but probably let the engine idle too long which might have contributed to the EGR failure. I've changed that and time will tell.

Saline I'd like to hear more about the additive issue. Currently I'm using Fords diesel additive.

Zeta 12-18-2010 10:03 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daveb
Everytime I take my rig in to the shop for something, Ford themselves are saying something like "Oh they used to use...Oh that part has been replaced by a better part...etc".

I had a water pump failure and right bank injector harness failure on my '02 PSD at 60k. Wasn't so thrilled. Each time I was headed for a trip. Each time. I think it hated me.

Z

Ford_6L_E350 12-19-2010 10:33 AM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeta
Quote:

Originally Posted by daveb
Everytime I take my rig in to the shop for something, Ford themselves are saying something like "Oh they used to use...Oh that part has been replaced by a better part...etc".

I had a water pump failure and right bank injector harness failure on my '02 PSD at 60k. Wasn't so thrilled. Each time I was headed for a trip. Each time. I think it hated me.

Z

That means the 7.3's weren't bulletproof either.

Mike

EMrider 12-19-2010 01:03 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
We have 55k on our 06.

I know the issues quite well, but our SMB has been the most trouble free vehicle our family has ever owned. Now, bring up MBenz, and I have another story to tell..........

Only had to replace the EGR valve and fix a glow plug fitting.

I carefully follow all of the steps outlined by others to keep the odds as much in my favor as possible.
R

pjpvi 12-19-2010 06:22 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
58k on my 2005 6.0PSD.

- Engine pulled twice for bed plate gasket
- one turbo replace and one turbo rebuild
- HPOP failure (left us stranded)
- blown hi pressure turbo hose (two times now)
- shorted wiring harness caused no start once
- failed alternator (not PSD related)
- failed air conditioning compressor (not PSD related)

Running like a champ now!

Phil

bettyford 12-19-2010 07:25 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
2006 Chevy Express with a Dura Max 60k runs like a raped ape 20 to 24 mpg super quiet and 325hp (chipped) I have only had it 6 months but have put 10k on it already, the previous owner said he never had any issue and I have all the service records.

Ron

flyfisher 01-04-2011 04:18 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
2005 PSD with 45k miles on it. 85% of the miles are freeway, with the balance being whatever it takes to get to the lakes, rivers, or campsites. HPOP failed at 32k and was replaced under warranty (thank goodness, I think it was very expensive). Other than that, The Van's been trouble free. Of course I'm compulsive about maintaining it and driving it like I'm going to keep it forever. No long idles, let it warm up well and no charging up the pass in overdrive just because I can.

Tom

Greggd 01-07-2011 10:06 AM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Having read the post regarding the FORD coolant gelling from temperature extremes I tried to validate this problem for peace of mind and have not been able to get any information for this potential problem . I contacted three different FORD dealerships and an International Truck dealer in Reno and was told by their Service Managers that they hand not seen or heard of any bulletins to this issue .I was wondering if their might be somewhere that I could get the low down on this problem .
Greggde

saline 01-07-2011 10:53 AM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Again, still seems to be a theory but here is an excerpt from a discussion on thedieselsite.com



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwar
Does the lack of silicate have any adverse affects??? Not to ask a dumb question but why would ford continue to use a coolant that causes serious issues with its engines???

Does the 6.0L come from the factory with the ford gold or something from international???

(QUOTE) Posted by PGreenSVT at Powerstroke.org

Can't explain away Ford's logic. International uses Fleetrite ELC. Think about it. Whats is another silicate? Sand immediately come to mind. What is sand? It's an abrasive. Besides that it turns to a gell from the heat as it goes through the egr cooler trying to carry off the heat from high egt's resulting in the sludge that clogs the oil cooler. There is a substanial body of evidence supporting this.

Not having silicates is a positive thing. It has no adverse affects. ELC coolant is good for 300k miles without any additives and extendable to 600k with an additive pack at 300k. The new Delo ELC is good for 750k miles or 8 years extendable to 1 million miles.

I think it pretty much speaks for itself.
__________________
I'm on a campaign man. That Gold cxxp is killing our trucks and people need to know. It is the cause of the biggest problems we have with the 6.0 and the bad reputation the 6.0 has. And it is pretty cheap and easy to eliminate. People should know this. So yeah, I'm beating that drum. The other drum is the need to monitor ECT and EOT before you blow your egr cooler and head gaskets.

I just did a flush with Fleetrite Restore, VC9, lots of flushing, installed a coolant filter, and switched to ELC. Im curious to see what my coolant filter will look like after the first 500 miles, I know there is still most likely some cxxp in there still as I still have the stock EGR and oil cooler at 34k miles but I doubt there will be anywhere the abount that we see out of most of the posts with opened up coolant filters.

I recently installed the DieselSite.com coolant filter kit on my 2006 6.0. The kit came complete with everything you need and also came with the new billet aluminum filter head, looks really sharp.

PGreenSVT, dude you need to change your screen name to "ELC FOR LIFE!"

But I agree I just switched to ELC also, either way it cant be any worse than the gold, for those of you that have doubts just scrape the bottom of your degas bottle, thats the same cxxp thats clogging your oil cooler. When I did my flush I pulled my degas bottle and scrubbed it with a bottle brush, that cxxp is like glue.
also read this




(QUOTE) Posted by PGreenSVT Powerstroke.org





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the deal with the 6.0. Any good tuner (person writing your tunes) is not going to give you a tune that is going to tear up your truck. There are trucks all over the place running 400-420 rwhp with 750-800 rwtq all day long without problems.

Yes the 6.0 is known to blow head gaskets. This is why it happens. The Ford Gold coolant contains silicates. The silicates are not able to handle high EGT's generated by a good load or relatively high boost when run through the EGR cooler. They break down into a jell like sludge and fall out of suspension. This crud gets caught up in the tiny coolant passageways of the oil cooler. As the cooler clogs up it restricts coolant flow to the egr cooler. Now the egr cooler doesn't have enough coolant to carry off the heat generated by high EGT's. The limited amount of coolant in the egr cooler flash boils causing high pressure in the cooling system and the truck pukes coolant from the degas bottle due to the pressure. (it has to go somewhere)
Your uninformed Powerstroke owner is not monitoring his coolant temps and oil temps so he doesn't know whats going on and he keeps driving it this way. The problem get worse, the pressure causes the egr cooler to rupture. Now the egr cooler is leaking coolant into the intake manifold which then runs into the cylinders. Again the high combustion temps cause the coolant to vaporize. This causes unacceptably high cylinder pressure, the TTY head bolts stretch due to the additional pressure and there go your head gaskets.

Ok now you know the problem. Here's the cure. Get a good engine monitoring solution like the Edge Insight so that you can monitor your ECT and EOT. If those temps get more than 15* apart at normal cruising when at normal operating temperature your oil cooler is clogging up. Rebuild it now to prevent all that down stream damage from occurring. Flush that Ford Gold coolant cxxp out of your engine with a couple bottles of Restore. This is made specifically to clean out that silicate residue. Now refill it with a silicate free Cat EC-1 rated ELC coolant. This removes the silicates that clog the oil cooler from the equation. If you live in an area where you don't have smog inspections delete the egr system. If you can't delete it replace the egr cooler with the cooler manufactured by Bulletproof Diesel. This is vastly superior to the Ford oem egr cooler and it will not fail on you. If you find that you need to replace head gaskets replace the TTY head bolts with ARP studs and use black onyx (Victor Reinz) head gaskets. If you have to replace the egr cooler always replace the oil cooler. That is the source of the problem.

Now that you have addressed the common problems that scare the hell out of people, get an SCT tuner (i like the X3) and install some custom tunes and drive the heck out of it. DO NOT baby it. The Powerstroke hates this and will rebel with turbo issues.

Turbo issues are also common repair points with the 6.0. People like to complain that it's because the VGT turbos are pieces of junk. This is not so. The VGT vanes in the turbo need to be exercised regularly. This means making them go through there full range of motion. So put your foot in it regularly and let is see some full boost runs. That will keep your VGT vanes from getting all sooted up and freezing up because of the soot. Again, that is what happens when you baby it. Put you foot in it and you will have less problems. Lay out of it and try to milk it for mileage like you would a gasser and you're going to have turbo issues. Don't let it sit either. That is also the kiss of death to the turbo. The unison ring rusts up and again you have turbo problems. So now that you know you need to give your turbo a regular work out to keep it happy, give it a proper cool down as well. Just whipping into your parking place and shutting it down will lead to coking the bearings and again major turbo issues. Running a good synthetic oil will help here immensely because it handles heat so much better and resists coking. But always let your turbo have time to cool down. This is one of the reasons you need a Pyrometer (EGT gauge), Let the EGT come down to 350* before shutting your truck off. This only takes a couple of minutes, especially if you take it easy on it for the last couple minutes of your trip. If this is too much hassle for you get a turbo timer that will automatically delay shutdown when you turn off the key to allow the turbo to cool down.

Injectors. Fords injection system HEUI fires the injectors with High Pressure Oil, to the tune of 4,000psi at Wide Open Throttle. Maintenance is critical here so you can not let your oil maintenance slide like you can on a gasser. It will kill your injectors. The injectors also are known to suffer from something that we call stiction. That is when the oil side spool valve of the injects hangs up or sticks when cold until the truck warms up. I believe this is caused by varnish buildup that is common to dino oils, especially those containing paraffin. Using a good synthetic oil will take care of that because it actually cleans the engine as it lubricates. If you do find yourself with some injector stiction add a couple of bottles of Rev-X to your oil. It has cleared up 99.9% of the trucks it has been used on. 2 bottles run around $70. A new injector is about $250-$290. Be anal about keeping your oil clean and fresh and changing your fuel filters regularly. The other thing that kills injectors is low fuel pressure. The fuel pressure needs to stay above 45psi at all times and is typically set around 52 psi from the factory. Well the Factory fuel pressure regulator spring is weak and looses it's tension over time and can't maintain adequate fuel pressure. There is an updated rebuild kit that uses a better, stronger spring. Installing this spring will bring your fuel pressure up to about 62 psi and solve that. Get a fuel pressure gauge. It's important.

So that covers the frequent complaints with the 6.0. They are all well known at this point as are the solutions. Does it suck we have to fix Ford's blunders? Heck yes it does. But again we know how and once done you will have a very reliable robust truck that is well worth the effort. So address the issues as you can and enjoy your truck.

stikine 01-08-2011 10:07 AM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Some real good info here, but for those of us on extended warranties, I would suggest there would be a very strong likelihood that a switch to International Fleetrite ELC coolant would void your warranty.

Ford_6L_E350 01-08-2011 10:30 AM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
It may not void your warranty, but it would be a big problem if someone added Ford Gold Coolant to fillup you system.

Mike

bitburger 01-14-2011 12:41 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
A short time ago, I purchased the expensive extended warranty for my 08.

Last weekend, my check engine light came on. The turbocharger vanes were frozen, replaced under warranty without a murmur by Ford of Kirkland.

It doesn't seem quite as expensive anymore :a2:

PatO 01-17-2011 09:39 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bitburger
Last weekend, my check engine light came on.:a2:

I call that my Replace Turbo Light. 12K, 20K and 33K replacements or service.

saline 01-17-2011 11:29 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PatO
Quote:

Originally Posted by bitburger
Last weekend, my check engine light came on.:a2:

I call that my Replace Turbo Light. 12K, 20K and 33K replacements or service.

Wow! Do you let it sit for extended periods? Do you use cetane boost?

Cali Native 01-18-2011 05:04 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
24000 miles no problems except looks like I've just lost a OME shock up front making the handling spooky. Oil changed religiously at 5000 miles. Idle only long enough to drop temp down to 200 or less. Had a 2003 F350 that lost a turbo at 27000 miles than was good until 105000 then they put 3 in to find a good one and at that point I donated it to the Make A Wish foundation as repairing off warranty is to be avoided like the plague.

Greg In Austin 02-08-2011 06:20 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
We have approx 40k miles on our 2008 6.0.

Zero problems, but we also drive it easy.

AND we did invest in the extended warranty.

Ed in Montana 02-09-2011 05:48 AM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
We have 37,000 miles on the 2006 6LPSD with one turbo replacement at 30,000. I use the Amsoil cetane boost regularly.

It's time to buy the extended warranty in the next several months!

JoeyNick 02-28-2011 05:51 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
I'm just over 90k with no engine problems to date, AND I have a tuner.

I've used a fuel additive with each tank from day one, plus Mobil 1 synthetic oil since the first oil change (and every 5k thereafter.)

daveb 02-28-2011 11:42 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyNick
I'm just over 90k with no engine problems to date, AND I have a tuner.

I've used a fuel additive with each tank from day one, plus Mobil 1 synthetic oil since the first oil change (and every 5k thereafter.)

What brand additive are you using Joey?
Thanks
Dave.

lobo_q3a 04-27-2011 05:49 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saline
Quote:

Originally Posted by PatO
Quote:

Originally Posted by bitburger
Last weekend, my check engine light came on.:a2:

I call that my Replace Turbo Light. 12K, 20K and 33K replacements or service.

Wow! Do you let it sit for extended periods? Do you use cetane boost?


I've had my vanes cleaned once at around 15K and now, @ 24K, the light is on with a turbo error code. My van sits a lot and I am turbo diesel noobie. I have not purchased the extended warranty from Towne Ford (my van is a 2006) and i'm about to go in to (presumably) have the vanes cleaned again.

Is there someone else who could do this besides the stealer?

What are some great options for monitoring ECT and EOT?

Are there any other things i should have down while the van is getting its vanes cleaned? Like replacing the EGR cooler and oil cooler? (I'm running Amsoil).

We love this van and i am now wondering if i have been babying it too much. I need the van to be rock solid while we are out and about in it.

Thanks for all the info Saline!

carringb 04-27-2011 05:59 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Lobo - sounds like you need to drive it harder. Hook up a trailer, find a long hill, and keep you foot to the floor.

EMrider 04-27-2011 08:21 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by carringb
Lobo - sounds like you need to drive it harder. Hook up a trailer, find a long hill, and keep you foot to the floor.

Yep, read enough on the diesel boards and you'll see this is exactly what most recommend for the 6.0psd. The motor was designed to be driven hard, not babied. If you don't get full boost on the turbo once in awhile, carbon can accumulate on the turbo vanes and cause them to stick. At full throttle/boost, the turbo spins fast enough to fully articulate the vanes, which is necessary to blow out carbon deposits and prevent sticking. Counterintuitive yes, but to make the motor last you need to hammer it regularly.

I try and drive the van weekly or at least every other week at the longest. And every time I'm driving, after full warmup, will do a few 10-30 second full throttle runs up to 3500rpm or more. Easy to do when merging onto the freeway. For a 10k pound vehicle, it can move pretty well.
R

jage 04-27-2011 08:46 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
I'm doing it wrong. Glad to know since I like to drive hard, and flat towing the Jeep is actually better? My big problem is I tend to not drive it unless on a trip. Guess I need to take it out more in between times.

oldbonesclimber 04-27-2011 09:07 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
I also agree to DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT . I have an 06 E350 6.0 work truck and BEAT it. ( Not mine so it is easier) 100,200 and the only thing it had replaced besides batteries is a vacuum pump. don't even use additives. Oil is just 15/40 petrolium not synthetic. One of the reasons I bought the 07 sporty that way. I think they do like to be driven regularly and hard. I try to keep the Sporty moving at least weekly.

Paul :b5:

lobo_q3a 04-28-2011 12:49 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
lol @ "DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT"

This makes sense. I will drive it once a week to work.

Now the question is where do i take it for the vane cleaning.

EMrider 04-28-2011 01:15 PM

Re: how many miles on your 6.0 smb?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lobo_q3a
lol @ "DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT"

This makes sense. I will drive it once a week to work.

Now the question is where do i take it for the vane cleaning.

Strange but true, I've had good experiences with Sunset Ford in N. Hollywood. They have a very large truck service center and see a lot of Ford diesels.

But I bet that Hubert at South Bay Auto Care (formerly Bob's Brake and Alignment) could do the turbo cleaning too. May be worth giving him a call to ask.
R


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