98 4x4 Quigley Repairs

[radchad-SMB]

Hey All, I bought that rad van from BAT with the Magnum PI Surf style Stripes, it was 40K and once I got it to Colorado and drove it a bit the front felt fugged up, loose, dragging, etc. Not normal loose, like something was not right.

I took to Spruce Street 4x4 in Boulder to have it looked at and the whole front end needs to be rebuilt pretty much with the front and rear brakes.

Total is about 8500.00

Question is this: Is the Quigley worth keeping around or should I take the cash and put towards a De-Quigley setup - Timberline, Ujoint, etc.

Granted those options will be a lot more dough and I am not skilled enough to do it ( DIY ).

My initial reaction is just get the Quigs fixed up and run it for a few, I have never owned van other than a 71' VW Bus... haha

Thoughts, suggestions, etc.

 

[The_Vermonster]

8500, yikes! I'd be interested to know what they want to do for that price. Shocks and springs would be about $1500, and you can easily do that yourself. Swaybar links and bushings are also cheap and easy to do. Ball joints, caster, and some of the trackrod stuff can be more expensive and complicated.

I'd try and start with a second opinion though.

 

[radchad-SMB]

8500, yikes! I'd be interested to know what they want to do for that price. Shocks and springs would be about $1500, and you can easily do that yourself. Swaybar links and bushings are also cheap and easy to do. Ball joints, caster, and some of the trackrod stuff can be more expensive and complicated.

I'd try and start with a second opinion though.

I probably should be more accurate in what the list of repairs looks like:
1. 10 sparks plugs and coils
2. front and rear brakes
3. Ujoints
4. track bar bushings
5. sway bar bushings
6. Axle shaft assembly
7. Center link
8. Tie Rod remote and replace
9. Fuel Filter

Part and labor.

CT

 

[1der]

Where are you in CO?

 

[radchad-SMB]

Where are you in CO?

Longmont, planning on taking out to Justin at UJoint this fall… but until then I need to get this thing going.

 

[The_Vermonster]

I probably should be more accurate in what the list of repairs looks like:
1. 10 sparks plugs and coils
2. front and rear brakes
3. Ujoints
4. track bar bushings
5. sway bar bushings
6. Axle shaft assembly
7. Center link
8. Tie Rod remote and replace
9. Fuel Filter

Part and labor.

CT

So I don't see anything there that is uniquely Quigley. I mean, a lot of that will get replaced and dealt with if you do a UJ conversion. But then again, you're basically paying to unconvert, then convert a van. So it better address most of those issues.

Is there a particular reason you want to de-quigleyify the van?

 

[86Scotty]

Agreed ^^^.

Also agreed that you should get a second opinion. Do you actually have a miss? Spark plugs and coils is an expensive repair that you may not even need.

 

[shenrie]

Is there a particular reason you want to de-quigleyify the van?

He posted in various van pages on fb and dequigify is the first thing out of most responders mouths. Glad he posted here where there’s less biased opinions. Not against uj conversions, especially if you need a serious off road rock crawleing monster, but if all you need is a capable 4wd system, the quigley is fine. My quigley has been a great van for the last 12 years.

I say get all the items fixed and judge the van from there. Mine needed some love for sure when I first got it but now I can drive it one handed down the freeway at 80 mph no problem.

 

[WhitH]

I’m in agreement, unless you’re wanting to make a rock crawling van stick with the Quigley setup you already paid for. There isn’t anything in that list that wouldnt need to be addressed regardless. Cool looking van.

 

[radchad-SMB]

I’m in agreement, unless you’re wanting to make a rock crawling van stick with the Quigley setup you already paid for. There isn’t anything in that list that wouldnt need to be addressed regardless. Cool looking van.

Right on, as mentioned above I have posted about my van in other groups on FB, mostly introducing myself and getting stoked. A lot of varying information and opinions that have my head spinning.

I agree with getting the Quigley sorted out and not going down the UJ or other paths.

I am not sure I am going Rock Crawling, maybe some off-road stuff in Colorado which I am sure the Quigley will be ok.

 

[radchad-SMB]

He posted in various van pages on fb and dequigify is the first thing out of most responders mouths. Glad he posted here where there’s less biased opinions. Not against uj conversions, especially if you need a serious off road rock crawleing monster, but if all you need is a capable 4wd system, the quigley is fine. My quigley has been a great van for the last 12 years.

I say get all the items fixed and judge the van from there. Mine needed some love for sure when I first got it but now I can drive it one handed down the freeway at 80 mph no problem.

YUP! That is me, the info is all over the place and just trying to wrap my head around it all after spending 40K on the van and then getting slapped with pretty large bill repairs. Just want to informed. Thanks for the info, I am going to keep the Quigley and just get that sorted out.

 

[Pete-SMB]

So I don't see anything there that is uniquely Quigley. I mean, a lot of that will get replaced and dealt with if you do a UJ conversion. But then again, you're basically paying to unconvert, then convert a van. So it better address most of those issues.

Is there a particular reason you want to de-quigleyify the van?

Agreed, and many of these items can be done yourself. If you don't have a misfire or stumbling under acceleration, the coils and wire replacement is not needed. Sounds like someone is trying to fleece you.

 

[Big_ern_101]

There are generally 2 schools of thought on the 4x4 setups.
-Quigley is the kleenex of vans, they converted a ton of them and even non Quigleys are called "Quigleys". Their conversion was OEM approved and still to this day even the older stuff is well supported and you can get parts direct from Quigley. There are a few downsides though.
Limited travel - not really much can be done here, they wanted the van low for minimal impact to ride height and step in height and well, the driveshaft and front axle has to go somewhere.
Parts availability - Quigley modified parts and assigned their own part numbers to stuff. A lot of it crosses to other year OEM stuff, but some parts like the rotors are modified from stock so you gotta get them from Quigley or modify it yourself.
OEM Solution - Quigley was never intended to be hammered offroad, it was intended to provide a 4x4 van that met OEM spec. As such, expect it to be as good as a stock 4x4 truck of the same era.
Old tech - The Quigley stuff was done when the vehicle was new, so the conversions don't take advantage of improvements like can be realized going to later model Superduty axles.

Timberline and UJoint - They are the two remaining big players in the 4x4 Econoline conversion game and unless you have an well known and respected local shop, these would be the only guys I would consider. This isnt the place to discuss leafs vs coils, they both have their pros and cons. But in general, if you go with a Timberline or UJoint conversion...
Newer parts - The axles will be from late-model superdutys, so you get the bigger brakes, bigger bearings, bigger axles, modern bolt pattern, etc.
Designed as an upgrade - Design has been prioritized to be an upgrade and fix some of the ills of the Quigley or other oem conversions. Wheel placement, shock and spring rates, ride height, articulation, tire clearance, etc all are improved over what a Quigley setup can realize.
Parts availability - Timberline and UJoint use off the shelf axles with minimal/no modifications. My experience is with Timberline and they provided a parts list with the conversion so you are not locked in to buying service parts from Timberline and can source them anywhere.

When I see the list of parts recommended, there is definitely a bit of fleecing going on here because you showed up with a sweet new van and someone figures "this guy has cash"

1. 10 sparks plugs and coils (doesnt affect ride, not sure why recommended)

2. front and rear brakes (shouldnt affect wander unless the vehicle pulls under braking. If the brakes are good, maybe replace the pads, at least inspect them)

3. Ujoints (Where? Which ones? There are at least 6 U-joints on a 4WD van (2 on rear driveshaft, 2 on front drivehsaft, 2 on front axle). Unless these are blown up or obviously worn, no need to replace)

4. track bar bushings (OK this is a big one and will definitely affect how the van drives. This is a 30 minute DIY in your driveway if you have a new track bar. The track bar controls how bad the van will wander or get death wobble as it locates the axle side-to-side.

5. sway bar bushings (Probably needs it, if these are OEM Ford they are like 25 dollars and a 10 minute driveway job to swap)

6. Axle shaft assembly (The What? Need more details on the part recommendation and the reasoning behind replacement)

7. Center link (Cheap part, easy driveway replacement like the track bar)

8. Tie Rod remote and replace (Cheap part, easy driveway replacement like the track
bar)

9. Fuel Filter (Good maintenance idea, but doesnt affect how the vehicle drives. Not really a huge deal or expense)

Note that you will need an alignment after items 7 and 8 and could consider one after item 4 but not needed unless the steering wheel is in a different position.

 

[RVflyfish]

Sounds like someone is trying to fleece you.

^ This!

I just sold my Astro AWD to a couple who had not one, but two, shops try to fleece them.

The first said it needed $3500 worth of front end work - ball joints, CV axles, bushings, a control arm, yada yada. The thing is, I had already replaced all of those parts, and the replacements had 30,000 miles or less on them.

The second shop said, “Nah, that first shop was a ripoff, it only needs $2300 worth of front end work. But…it’s also going to need a motor.” They showed the buyers an oil drain plug with filings stuck to it. Except I changed the oil on that motor religiously and never saw a single filing.

It’s not limited to 4x4 vans either. This winter my mom slid into a curb during a storm. She hit it hard enough to pop her tire and break a sway bar link. The tow truck took it to a shop that said every part on that corner of the suspension needed to be changed. They gave her a $1900 estimate. I bought an OEM link from the dealer for $100 (could’ve done a lot better if I had time to order one online) and we got her a new tire, and it drives like new.

It’s gotten to the point that I won’t even take my rigs to a shop anymore. YouTube can teach you how to repair almost anything, and you’ll treat your van a lot better than most shops will.

 

[86Scotty]

Big Ern's post should be a sticky!

:b5:

 

[radchad-SMB]

Big Ern's post should be a sticky!

:b5:

100%, all of the responses have been super helpful, especially for someone new to these rigs.

 

[radchad-SMB]

This is amazing, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts!

My rig sits on 35's and you mentioned that Quigley was designed to be low, are the 35's to big? The van is pretty lifted.

Quote
"Limited travel - not really much can be done here, they wanted the van low for minimal impact to ride height and step in height and well, the driveshaft and front axle has to go somewhere."

 

[Big_ern_101]

This is amazing, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts!

My rig sits on 35's and you mentioned that Quigley was designed to be low, are the 35's to big? The van is pretty lifted.

Quote
"Limited travel - not really much can be done here, they wanted the van low for minimal impact to ride height and step in height and well, the driveshaft and front axle has to go somewhere."

35s should be fine for soft-roading, take a look under the front end and see how much clearance you have between the axle and the frame. Usually Quigleys do not have a ton of space here - 1-2", but they can be lifted a little over as-delivered Quigley height to clear bigger tires.

The bigger question about 35s being too big is do the tires rub at all?
Does it lug on the roads or always hunt for gears when cruising at 50-65 MPH or does it stay in top gear with the converter locked up when cruising, even up mild grades.

35s on a Quigley suspension are not going to have much for articulation, but unless the van is heavily modified (yours isn't) you cant stuff a 35 into the wheelwells in front so it doesn't really matter, less travel keeps the tires out of the sheetmetal and you don't need that much travel for fire roads and snow.

 

[radchad-SMB]

35s should be fine for soft-roading, take a look under the front end and see how much clearance you have between the axle and the frame. Usually Quigleys do not have a ton of space here - 1-2", but they can be lifted a little over as-delivered Quigley height to clear bigger tires.

The bigger question about 35s being too big is do the tires rub at all?
Does it lug on the roads or always hunt for gears when cruising at 50-65 MPH or does it stay in top gear with the converter locked up when cruising, even up mild grades.

35s on a Quigley suspension are not going to have much for articulation, but unless the van is heavily modified (yours isn't) you cant stuff a 35 into the wheelwells in front so it doesn't really matter, less travel keeps the tires out of the sheetmetal and you don't need that much travel for fire roads and snow.

OK, cool. Makes sense, so need to go to 33's? I am just going to leave it and see how it does. It is tall, I can't imagine a bigger lift and 37's for example. haha

 

[Twoxentrix]

Could consider 'Sumo's' to replace your bump stops in n effort to soften any harsh jarring if/when you bottom out. Curious if you have any sway bars on your rig (front or back), or a FE steering stabilizer? Granted neither will 'fix' your current situation, but certainly helps once you address the obvious.