Agile Quigley RIP - horrible ride??

[fattmann]

1998 E-150 Club Wagon (5.4L) (short body)
Full Quigley running gear (Dana 44 front, Dana 60 rear)
Agile RIP (all 4 shocks, sway bar drop kit)
Replaced OEM: axle side sway bar bushings, coil spring (CC880)
Stock (as far as I know) rear leaf packs with Quigley ~4" block
Front weight: 3660
Rear weight: 2800
Total weight: 6460

I have a 1998 E-150 Club Wagon with four captains chairs, no bench seats. The existing cheapo shocks were completely hosed, and it felt like a cartoon when you hit any appreciable bump in the road with how it rocked back and forth on essentially the springs alone. Constant WHAMs on the bump stops, etc. I knew the suspension needed a refresh.

I just finished the install of a partial Agile Quigley RIP kit. After speaking with the Agile team, due to the low weight of my van, I opted for only the four custom valved shocks, and the sway bar lowering bracket kit. I bought the Moog CC880 front coil spring (not the S variant) as they expressed concern of the low front end weight with the 5.4L that the S variant would be far too stiff. Similarly we opted not to go with the add-a-leaves in the rear. I have no plans to run this rig loaded down like an overlander rig. Just a simple, empty, daily driver. I also replaced the axle side way bar bushings.

Overall - the ride is just horrible. While the oscillating bounciness from before is much better - the shocks seem so stiff that every paving cut feels like you're bottoming out on the bump stops. It seriously feels like the front shocks are doing little to nothing to dampen anything on the road. My mother has a stock 2004 E-350 XLT EB that rides like a Cadillac in comparison. Before, my van cruised like a dream on the highway and was only rough on real bumpy side roads and dirt roads. Now - it is uncomfortable to drive on the highway - let alone any other roads.

Attached is an image of the front passenger shock (and spring). I suspect there's only ~3-4" of the shock's shaft between the eyelet assembly and the main shock body. Does this look normal? I was initally worried that there simply wasn't any up-travel on the shock the way it is installed. I know Agile's spec only has 6" of travel, but didn't think it would bottom out with the very little up-travel the Quiley setup provides. I plan on pulling the shocks again and removing the boots for better visibility while I sort things out. I have just under 2" (~1 7/8") from axle to bumpstop, which I read is typical and I expected.

I guess I'm looking for insight as to why I might be having such a horrible ride. I went from feeling like no shocks and only spring bounce, to seriously feeling like my axles are connected with stiff rubber and no springs at all. Is my van just simply too light for the Agile's custom valving? That's the only thing I can think of.

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.

 

[REDOVAL]

Just a quick thought from looking at the image....the shock is incorrect for the vehicle as it appears to be nearly fully collapsed at ride height. If there's not enough available shock shaft exposed for bump travel the ride will be anything but desirable and they won't last long. Again...just an observation

Scott

 

[fattmann]

Just a quick thought from looking at the image....the shock is incorrect for the vehicle as it appears to be nearly fully collapsed at ride height. If there's not enough available shock shaft exposed for bump travel the ride will be anything but desirable and they won't last long. Again...just an observation

Scott

This is the main concern I had off the bat. Because I can't SEE the shaft w the boot I didn't want to jump to conclusions.

The Agile team was amazing to work with - I don't want anyone to think I'm bashing their products or recommendations.

I know I didn't install the wrong shocks on the front as I followed not only Agiles order sheet and part numbers, but also because the rear ones were inherently much longer and noticeably so.

 

[geoffff]

> My mother has a stock 2004 E-350 XLT EB that rides like a Cadillac in comparison

Not surprising. That's going to be 2WD -- so independent front suspension, and probably a lot more up-travel than the 1⅞" you have. A solid axle 4x4 with <2" up-travel isn't going to ride as nice as a 2WD on the bumps.


I wouldn't be surprised if those shocks are wrong, but don't get your hopes up too much for a nice ride even with the correct shocks.

My 2004 Sportsmobile 4x4 had the same very short up-travel (just under 2"), and I had to be very conscious of keeping it slow on rough roads or I would hit my bump stops.

 

[carringb]

You can cut the zip tie from the boot then slide it up the body.

I also suspect it’s too long for that setup. I’ve never seen the RIP installed on a pre-‘07 E150 before. If somebody in the shop isn’t super experienced with the E-series, they maybe didn’t know the earlier E150s are a true half-ton unlike the 07+ E150s which are a 3/4-ton.

The good news is, your front axle weight is nearly identical to an extended-body E350 5.4L, so they probably aren’t far off on the spring rate or valving.

The are likely way too stiff for the rear axle weight. You may need to find something tuned for an F150 for the rear end.

 

[Twoxentrix]

A set of Sumo’s to replace your bump stops will certainly help alleviate any spine discomfort - cushions the front suspension as it compresses, opposed to the van body having to tolerate those hard compression impacts.

 

[fattmann]

> My mother has a stock 2004 E-350 XLT EB that rides like a Cadillac in comparison

Not surprising. That's going to be 2WD -- so independent front suspension, and probably a lot more up-travel than the 1⅞" you have. A solid axle 4x4 with <2" up-travel isn't going to ride as nice as a 2WD on the bumps.

I wouldn't be surprised if those shocks are wrong, but don't get your hopes up too much for a nice ride even with the correct shocks.

My 2004 Sportsmobile 4x4 had the same very short up-travel (just under 2"), and I had to be very conscious of keeping it slow on rough roads or I would hit my bump stops.

Makes sense on the 2WD IFS part. I just wasn't expecting it to be so much worse than no shocks at all!!

 

[fattmann]

You can cut the zip tie from the boot then slide it up the body.

I also suspect it’s too long for that setup. I’ve never seen the RIP installed on a pre-‘07 E150 before. If somebody in the shop isn’t super experienced with the E-series, they maybe didn’t know the earlier E150s are a true half-ton unlike the 07+ E150s which are a 3/4-ton.

The good news is, your front axle weight is nearly identical to an extended-body E350 5.4L, so they probably aren’t far off on the spring rate or valving.

The are likely way too stiff for the rear axle weight. You may need to find something tuned for an F150 for the rear end.

I do plan on messing with the boot this evening - good call on just sliding it up - will start there.

Interesting note on the pre-'07. I certainly gave Agile the year, but didn't think about the chassis difference in that way - I bet the person I worked with didn't either.

I was going to try and load up a few hundred pounds in the rear to see if that feels any different. I know when I had my '87 shorty with a dually Dana 70 (fellow connoisseur I see!) and mystery shocks, it road so much better loaded down with some commercial walk-behind mowers.

If I do end up swapping the shocks out I hope I can get a few bucks for them! I had to press in new eyelet bushings to match the larger shock stud mounting my axle has, ended up marring the aluminum a bit :k8:

 

[fattmann]

A set of Sumo’s to replace your bump stops will certainly help alleviate any spine discomfort - cushions the front suspension as it compresses, opposed to the van body having to tolerate those hard compression impacts.

I've heard about these a bit from lurking on the forums here... Will definitely be something I look at down the road. For a few hundred bucks tho I have a few other things I need to address first.

Do you have a specific model/line to recommend from Sumo? I'll be doing some research!

 

[Twoxentrix]

This will explain the differences in the Sumo colors (3 types based on weight):
https://superspringsinternational.com/sumosprings/

As far as identifying what you need, I would call them for advise (I’d think you should choose the ‘blue’ since your Van is so much lighter than most, unless your plans are to build out)

 

[86Scotty]

I strongly recommend SUMO stops but they aren't going to completely solve your problem.

Those shocks look wrong.

All Q vans ride rough on the road but good to great (IMO) offroad if everything is dialed in, but never never will it ride half as good as an OEM 4wd SUV/pickup. The overall design and engineering of these vans is 50 years old.

Weight of the van DOES matter and I suspect you are light for this setup.

What tires and tire pressure are you running? Running anything near manufacturer recommended pressure on these vans makes for a bad experience. I always run E-rated A/T tires and I never run them anywhere near recommended (generally 80) psi. I run anywhere from 50-60 and offroad I run 20. Makes all the difference in the world in terms of overall comfort and handling.

I don't want to change the subject here from your suspension setup to tires just remember that tires are a huge part of the suspension (read cushioning) of these vans. More so than anything else I've ever driven.

:b5:

 

[clicker44]

I would also triple check the shocks from Agile are correct. They are a busy shop and the E series vans are now at the bottom of their priority list. My last experience with them was very different than my first experience with them. YMMV.

 

[geoffff]

Yes, as 86Scotty says, tire pressure makes a huge difference! Especially with your van being light, if you have large tires you probably don't even need 50-60 PSI on your front tires. As you know your axle weights, you can look up your tire size in a Tire and Load Table.

For my 2004 RB van, which weighed about 9300 lbs with 4200 lbs on the front axle riding on LT305/70R16 tires, I could run as low as 35 PSI on highway on the front tires (though I usually bumped that up to 40). Rears were 50 PSI.

 

[geoffff]

A set of Sumo’s to replace your bump stops will certainly help alleviate any spine discomfort - cushions the front suspension as it compresses, opposed to the van body having to tolerate those hard compression impacts.

I should have tried that, as my old van loved to hit the bump stops!


This youtube video has some nice undercarriage video showing these in action. Note that they engage way earlier than traditional bump stops, so they will change likely your ride in general - not just the extreme situations.

 

[ScrapIron]

Wow, i had no idea the Quigley Vans were setup so poorly. Two inches of suspension travel is beyond rediculous on a four wheel drive vehicle.

 

[fattmann]

I strongly recommend SUMO stops but they aren't going to completely solve your problem.

Those shocks look wrong.

All Q vans ride rough on the road but good to great (IMO) offroad if everything is dialed in, but never never will it ride half as good as an OEM 4wd SUV/pickup. The overall design and engineering of these vans is 50 years old.

Weight of the van DOES matter and I suspect you are light for this setup.

What tires and tire pressure are you running? Running anything near manufacturer recommended pressure on these vans makes for a bad experience. I always run E-rated A/T tires and I never run them anywhere near recommended (generally 80) psi. I run anywhere from 50-60 and offroad I run 20. Makes all the difference in the world in terms of overall comfort and handling.

I don't want to change the subject here from your suspension setup to tires just remember that tires are a huge part of the suspension (read cushioning) of these vans. More so than anything else I've ever driven.

:b5:

Load Range E 265/75R16 mud terrains that came on the van when I bought it. Did a test drive after install at my normal 50psi, then lowered to 40psi - not a whole lot different.

When I buy new tires in the spring I'm definitely going to be doing a ton of research on load ranges for my use case. I don't haul heavy loads, but I know sidewall strength is important for handling, etc.

 

[fattmann]

I would also triple check the shocks from Agile are correct. They are a busy shop and the E series vans are now at the bottom of their priority list. My last experience with them was very different than my first experience with them. YMMV.

I will contact them to confirm. The shocks I received have model numbers on them that matched their initial recommendation PDF spec sheet, so there's at least that.

 

[geoffff]

Wow, i had no idea the Quigley Vans were setup so poorly. Two inches of suspension travel is beyond rediculous on a four wheel drive vehicle.

Sportsmobile 4x4 is the same.

That's just the up-travel. My Sportsmobile 4x4 had 2" of up-travel, but there's also a lot more down-travel possible.

It's hard to get more up-travel on a 4" lift without the differential hitting the E-Series engine crossmember.

You get used to it, but you have to take the bumps slow.

 

[fattmann]

Wow, i had no idea the Quigley Vans were setup so poorly. Two inches of suspension travel is beyond rediculous on a four wheel drive vehicle.

While I don't disagree - I understand their decision. Quigley's customer base wasn't rock crawlers, etc. - typical folks that wanted a daily with a selectable 4WD option in the van platform, something that didn't really exist widespread at the time (not discounting the other like Pathfinder, Sports Mobile, etc). They found a customer base willing to pay the premium and rolled with it. Such is business.

 

[geoffff]

Here is a one minute video showing the front suspension of my old Sportsmobile 4x4 as I drive on city streets – using a GoPro attached under the frame on the driver side (facing forward). You can see the suspension movement, as well as some bump stop hits.

@ 0:10 sec – Bump stop hit when I purposely go over a "speed hump" at about 25 MPH.
@ 0:43 sec – I leave pavement and drive a gravel alley with lots of big potholes.

At some point I'll film myself driving this same route with my new UJoint 4x4 van for comparison.

I'd be curious to see what yours looks like!

(This is better viewed in Youtube with the quality changed to 1080p HD.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBHrfXnjY6o&vq=hd1080