Cell Signal Booster install question. Routing coax.

[Big_ern_101]

Don't waste your money and install time on a booster. Save your money for Starlink or camp in spots that have cell service. I am actually amazed at the number of locations where there is cell service these days. Much better than it was 5 years ago.

This whole post is facts but this is the real factoid to drink in.

If connectivity is important, barring a Starlink connection, the best option would be two mainline providers running off different towers.

AT&T Phone with Verizon hotspot that you can tether to.
Verizon Phone with AT&T hotspot that you can tether to.
T Mobile is the other mainline but they really don't have much once you get off the freeways.

Google Fi is not an ideal option. At risk of sounding like a broken record, my wife had it, and I cant tell you the amount of times I would be rocking full 5G on Verizon and I had to tether her phone which was on Google Fi.

Any of the MNVOs (fi, spectrum, mint, etc,) will have worse overall coverage than a mainline operator because they do not have access to as many towers. Thats just the facts of it.

Check it out here. https://coveragemap.com/

 

[Oogs]

I have a WeBoost 4G-OTR on my hightop SMB. It's connected to an older model signal booster in the van, the cradle kind that requires the phone to be physically sitting in the cradle to work. Just checking signal DBs, it does make a difference depending on where we are and works well for where we use the van mostly. The antenna is mounted to a swivel mount so it stays folded down until we need it.

As far as cable routing I just unscrewed one of the plastic pass thru caps that SMB used to route roof rack light cables and VERY carefully expanded the hole to make roon for the WeBoost cable. It's pretty thin. Plenty of silicone and no leaks after several years. I did have to use an extension cable b/c my antenna is on the rear passenger corner.

For our needs it's fine, can't justify any additional costs at this time although should we take a major (weeks long) road trip, I'd consider Starlink. BTW, we use GoogleFi and despite not as much coverage as Verizon, it works fine for us. We ditched Vz due to climbing costs.

 

[dbhost]

I have a WeBoost 4G-OTR on my hightop SMB. It's connected to an older model signal booster in the van, the cradle kind that requires the phone to be physically sitting in the cradle to work. Just checking signal DBs, it does make a difference depending on where we are and works well for where we use the van mostly. The antenna is mounted to a swivel mount so it stays folded down until we need it.

As far as cable routing I just unscrewed one of the plastic pass thru caps that SMB used to route roof rack light cables and VERY carefully expanded the hole to make roon for the WeBoost cable. It's pretty thin. Plenty of silicone and no leaks after several years. I did have to use an extension cable b/c my antenna is on the rear passenger corner.

For our needs it's fine, can't justify any additional costs at this time although should we take a major (weeks long) road trip, I'd consider Starlink. BTW, we use GoogleFi and despite not as much coverage as Verizon, it works fine for us. We ditched Vz due to climbing costs.

I never considered Verizon. Their monthly cost for an unlimited plan was what I was paying for 4 lines on AT&T when my wife and father in law were both alive... (I also paid for my BILs phone for a long time). AT&T is over twice the price of the unlimited Google Fi, and I travel internationally... So it was the best option...

Coverage in Houston Metro, and through at least Galveston / Brazoria county areas so far has been MUCH better than AT&T... So I am kind of ignoring the Google Fi bashing... Also west coast wise, Google Fi works way better than AT&T in the mountain passes between the Wilamette Valley and the Oregon High Desert... AT&T is probably the best for east coast, Verizon for West Coast, T-Mobile / Google Fi for overall from what I have read... Of course YMMV...

Yes Starlink is on the plan, but at $160.00 + month AND equipment fees I can't justify the added expense...

 

[1der]

dbhosttexas - is the Starlink 50GB/ $50/mo plan sufficient in combo w your phone data plan? You really only need SL when in a more remote / non-cell area.

 

[Scalf77]

IMHO going the weboost route at this time is throwing money on a limited solution. It is pretty much a big chunk of the cost of a Starlink Mini. You can start out with the $50.00-50GB plan. If you go over, it is another 50 for 50. if You can also pause the service on a monthly basis if you aren't and about using it. I just installed my Starlink, and it is in pause now. My next couple of outings will have cell coverage.

We can talk about coverage all you want, but it really comes down with what you have and where you are.

I am currently pondering an additional carrier, as my modem has two SIM slots, and I could switch between the carrier getting the best coverage. This is actually a pretty common setup with people that are working in the mobile space.

 

[dbhost]

IMHO going the weboost route at this time is throwing money on a limited solution. It is pretty much a big chunk of the cost of a Starlink Mini. You can start out with the $50.00-50GB plan. If you go over, it is another 50 for 50. if You can also pause the service on a monthly basis if you aren't and about using it. I just installed my Starlink, and it is in pause now. My next couple of outings will have cell coverage.

We can talk about coverage all you want, but it really comes down with what you have and where you are.

I am currently pondering an additional carrier, as my modem has two SIM slots, and I could switch between the carrier getting the best coverage. This is actually a pretty common setup with people that are working in the mobile space.

So my LONG TERM goal is to have the following.

#1. Google Fi that allows me coverage overseas / included international roaming. I frequent The Philippines and until some things change permanently there will be a lot of back and forth.
#2. Secondary US carrier, most likely AT&T, but even then I get dead coverage particularly at the park I was at... It's in kind of a bowl.
#3. Starlink Roam. The new Mini dish should actually fit in my laptop bag which is good, but you need an unobstsructed view of the sky, hard to get in dense forest...

Starlink IS on the agenda, just not as a primary, yet. If I end up more full time sucking up enough bandwidth I get throttled a lot, then yes, I would kick into Starlink more heavily.

So boiled down to soup and nuts, it is now and h as always been my intent to get the cell booster happy and doing its thing, and add Starlink as my needs get there...

 

[dbhost]

Well the telescoping tripod just arrived. The weather is horrific right now so no testing today... Perhaps this weekend, I should find a bad spot around Aransas Pass... but don't want to head there in a nearly freezing rain...

 

[dbhost]

So a quick update, and a reminder since I was messaged about this. I am trying to solve multiple issues here and should just reiterate what I am trying to do... / Problems I am trying to solve.

#1. Not just for internet, but I need to maintain cellular coverage. The booster is non negotiable. I know it won't work in 100% of where I am going, but it I can get 85%+ I am happy. The HiBoost was recommended by one of the guys in the 4x4 club that has one on his Grand Cherokee, the same places I have trouble with T mobile and the 1 to 2 bars of 5G to 4G popping up and down all the time becomes 5 bars constant. All of the same state parks, national forest etc... lands that I go to he goes to. He has both AT&T and Google Fi / T-Mobile (Work and persona) and the carrier doesn't really matter. Reports from my friends in the Pacific Northwest report better than AT&T and Verizon coverage on the T-Mobile network. Of course results may vary blah blah blah... I figure the booster will help.
#2. At some point, not immediate, but most likely not long after the 4wd conversion gets done, add StarLink to the mix. I want that mounted as well.
#3. I have some somewhat light but bulky items I want to carry with but not necessarily keep them in the van. Joolca Ensute Double. MaxxTraxx clone traction baords.

My Penthouse roof does have 4 bumps evenly spaced around about where the lift mechanism should be moutned that are coverd in gobs of what looks like dicor sealant or similar. I need to get someone much more flexible and not as heavy as me up there to look, mesure etc... If those are bolts as I suspect they are, perhaps they could be used for some brackets for short cross bars so I can mount a roof basket to the penthouse roof...

I would RADICALLY prefer to not drill any more holes in that penthouse top than absolutely necessary. But I will also need to route wires...

IF I can mount a roof basket, problem might be solved.

#1. I want the booster / antenna in the back of the camper by the bed. Put the outdoor antenna mounted at the front of the basket just behind say the drivers door so it is easy to pop the antenna up or down depending on terrain / use etc...
#2. Find a way to partition off the basket to dedicate a mounting space for a Starlink mini. Again that would be future addition.
#3. The remainder of the basket could be dedicated to big but light stuff.
#4. Route one gland for the wiring for the booster and the Starlink... with appropriate hole in the fiberglass in FRONT and outside of the canvas.

That leaves the question of how to get the wires through the canvas ind into . through the interior to the back of the van?


Until that is all sorted, I can use the booster on the telescoping tripod, slightly away from the van and in a plug it into the lighter socket as needed manner...

 

[Big_ern_101]

Sounds like a plan is coming together.

I advise also keeping the Starlink dish remote deployable, its always a treat to park under shade in hot weather, but there is that whole pesky "unobstructed view of the sky" issue. For when starlink is needed, set it up. Takes a few minutes.

Roof baskets on pop top vans, especially non-power-top vans, kind of stink. The weight of a full length basket alone would probably push close to what you want to add to the roof, not counting the geegaws.

I have heard mixed reviews on traction boards. Some guys swear by them, some guys say that if they work, you were not really that stuck to begin with.

I would go bumper with swingouts before I went roof basket. Access is a lot better, and you can get to the items top up or top down. If you don't go Monster Truck size wheels and tires, a guy could get double swing-out storage boxes instead of a tire and a storage box and that would be a pretty slick setup.

 

[dbhost]

Sounds like a plan is coming together.

I advise also keeping the Starlink dish remote deployable, its always a treat to park under shade in hot weather, but there is that whole pesky "unobstructed view of the sky" issue. For when starlink is needed, set it up. Takes a few minutes.

See, this is why I got and kept my solar panels portables. I can park in the shade and put the panels in direct sunlight.

Does the Starlink Mini require power like the old ones did? Or is it just like a Coax connecction?

Roof baskets on pop top vans, especially non-power-top vans, kind of stink. The weight of a full length basket alone would probably push close to what you want to add to the roof, not counting the geegaws.

Yes my van has a manually operated top. I had a Thule rack on a VW Westfalia decades ago, no big deal, but that one popped up on a hinged angle... So not really the same thing. Getting the top moving is a bit of a pain, but once it is going the spring assist really does do its job as it just glides up or down...

The idea here was to get stuff out of the van, mostly bulky stuff, and not rely on a hitch haul quite so much as they kill my departure angle... No worse than an extended van body but still makes for a harder time off the pavement.

The gear I would tend to carry there would be stuff that is light, but bulky. Traction boards, which I can strap to the spare tire off the back door if need be... the not sure what you call it, the big mat thing that goes under the awning. keeps me from dragging sand and crud into the van, its super light but super bulky. I am considering leaving my Ozark Trail smokeless fire pit at home and using an UCO flatpack folding fire pit / grill instead. MUCH less storage space needed. I REALLY like the smokeless fire pit, but it has its draw backs!

The other items would be things like camp chairs, and my Cabelas Campers Kitchen table...

I have heard mixed reviews on traction boards. Some guys swear by them, some guys say that if they work, you were not really that stuck to begin with.

2wd van, in the south. Some of our back roads turn into swamps in a good rain. Get slightly off the compacted sand on the beach and a tire sinks in... Yeah traction boards work, they are PART of a recovery tool kit, not a a fix all...

I would go bumper with swingouts before I went roof basket. Access is a lot better, and you can get to the items top up or top down. If you don't go Monster Truck size wheels and tires, a guy could get double swing-out storage boxes instead of a tire and a storage box and that would be a pretty slick setup.

Along with the 4wd conversion I will be doing a bumper with swing outs, and the spare for multiple reasons stays out back not under the van. The former spare tire carrier space is now space for a 25 gallon water tank. For now with the 265/70R16s I have a basic door mounted spare tire carrier that is "good enough". For access reasons I will never be going larger than 33x12.50/whatever rim size... Honestly aiming for 285/75R16 or 285/70R17 depending on the axle / brake setup...

A friend had a suggestion that is intruguing though.

Add a support pole to the spare tire carrier... Perhaps one that is telecsoping... Pull it down for transit mode, push it up when in camp with the top popped... Not the prettiest solution, but keeps me from having to carry all the stuff, including the telecoping tripod and allows me to use the booster en route to keep up with say GPS map updates etc...

 

[Wirehead]

All, sorry that I'm not on the forum much. I got talked back into a contracting gig that is interfering with my retirement.
I do this for a living and have done a ton of cell boosters. My two cents, is don't, just don't. The way a cell booster works is that the outside antenna is sending and receiving the same cellular frequencies that the inside antenna does. It is VERY easy to get into a feedback loop and cause the system to not work or work very poorly. If you really want to install one the key to good performance is to locate your external antenna and your internal antenna vertically, one above the other. Antenna's radiate very poorly from the top and the bottom and this will moderate any interference. Secondly, the more vertical separation the better. Put your external antenna on a mast and raise it up as high as possible. Not only does this get you better signal from any cell sites, it also greatly reduces the interference from your own two antennas.
If you still want to use a cellular connection a much better solution is to use a router with a sim card. This solution has cellular for your external and wifi for your internal which are much different frequencies and therefore not interfere with each other. Place your phones on wifi calling and you are good to go. Using a router also allows you to limit who can access your connection. I recommend carrying an omni directional antenna as well as a directional one.
What do I use? I use a Starlink and forego cellular altogether.

 

[dbhost]

Uh.... Seriously? Cell boosters are nothing more than an RF repeater... Repeaters function by frequency shifting to prevent a feedback loop. The inside antenna / transciever does NOT operate on the same exact frequency as the external antenna / transciever.

Everything you said about antenna location other than to get the external antenna up off the ground as far as you can, is just way off of every bit of advice I have ever seen in both the Cellular tech space including the booster MFGs, as well as advice from Amateur Radio operators that are running repeaters that I know. (Clear Lake Amateur Radio Club, these are almost all NASA guys and gals...)

My original question has nothing to do with whether or not to run a booster. The booster is a foregone conclusion. I have seen them in use and they work.

I opted for the HiBoost as it is the model one of my best friends uses in his Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins and he is WAY off grid dooing oil field service jobs and the like, never runs out of service... But rather I was asking for input on mounting the external antenna and routing it through the body work / interior of a Sportsmobile outfitted van with a Penthouse roof.

As was explained previously, the long term intent is to have both boosted cellular, AND StarLink. But for the time being the recurring costs of Starlink is a non starter.

And to further the discussion, testing has been done. Coax routed through the pass through port I have for power, antenna on a telescoping tripod 9' in the air with an additional 6' added extension AND the 24" of the antenna assembly itself, So a total from ground to tip of the antenna is 17'. Internal antenna is placed on the doghouse of the van.

I go from 1 to 1.5 bars signal and a speed test in the less than 100kb/s range, to 4-5 bars signal and 50+ mb/s range... Very little signal drop from front of the van all the way to the back.

The setup is chunky yes, and it does not work while in transit, but I have yet to encounter signal loss en route at least not since about 2003 anyway... The cellular network is pretty resilient these days...

I need to figure out the exactly where, and how to mount the external antenna still. Passenger side of the camper has the awning, drivers side has the 102" whip antenna for the CB radio. Proximity to ther antennae can cause issues with antennas doing what antennas do... and I sure don't want that big whip coming around and beating the tar out of the cellular antenna...

 

[1der]

Hmmmm ..... Wirehead is a senior communications expert who has been setting up all kinds of critical emergency communications networks for utilities/ fire/ natural disaster response teams where the majority of the communications infrastructure has been damaged or disabled. I think he knows A LOT about this stuff.

 

[dbhost]

Hmmmm ..... Wirehead is a senior communications expert who has been setting up all kinds of critical emergency communications networks for utilities/ fire/ natural disaster response teams where the majority of the communications infrastructure has been damaged or disabled. I think he knows A LOT about this stuff.

Perhaps he is an expert. And I am not calling his career into question, but his statement to me does not reveal that status.

And even experts can be wrong.

NASA crashed into Mars because of the "experts".

The EPA contaminated a river in colorado because of the "experts".

And I personally removed from a production system housing an in use production database because the "expert" system engineer, didn't verify the status of the files, and the "expert" Database Administrator signed off that the database files had been moved to different storage.

The "experts" built and sailed the Titanic...

So yes, even experts are prone to errors.

His statement "The way a cell booster works is that the outside antenna is sending and receiving the same cellular frequencies that the inside antenna does." is flat out incorrect. It is in the same band yes, and mind you what I am going to talk about is technically illegal, but I know the bits of specctrrum off the top of my head so I am going to use them...

You have a repeater set up to work on Citizens Band frequencies.

To get fully synchronous communications meaning talk, and listen at the same time, the repeater would recieve the exterior signal on Channel 1 at 26.965mhz and transmit on say Channel 2 at 26.975mhz. The interior or repeated signal would be recieved on channel 11 at 27.085mhz and it would transmit on Channel 12 at 27.105mhz.

So yes, the frequencies being used are kind of the same, because they are in the Citizens Band or 11m piece of the radio spectrum, but no, they are not the same frequencies, by design...

Perhaps Wirehead misspoke, or, I will assume better intention here and say he massively over simplified. And that might simply be the case, he doesn't know me, I don't know him, he's trying to explain his point and maybe not getting what he wanted to communicate through my thick dome...

Secondly... "Antenna's radiate very poorly from the top and the bottom and this will moderate any interference."

Again, not wrong, but contrary to the MFGs recommendations... Back to the CB thing... I have a base station set up at home, and I am in an HOA, so I had to hide my antenna. The easiest method would have been to run a dipole horizontally in my attic, However 90% of the stations I want to talk to would be directly due north, or due south of me, so at either end of the dipole where the performance is worse, although I could probably talk to ISS on my little 4 watt CB if they had one on board... Baiscaly if you were to visualize the RF radiation pattern from a dipole it would resemble a really big donut with the antenna running through the center of the hole...

His concept of going as far up as you can with the outdoor antenna is spot on. And no small part of why I am using the tripod for now. And why as I believe you had pointed out, mounting to the awning isn't a great idea once the top is popped, although I am unsure if the canvas really poses much of an obstacle for the RF... But point being get your radiating element up as high as you can... Same reason I prefer to use a 102 whip antenna on mobile CB applications, McDonalds hates me, but I have as good as possible performance with the radio...

The more I think about the donut shape of the radiation pattern, the more I think about trying the interior antenna actually in the back of the van close to where the outdoor antenna would be set up... Testing wouldn't hurt considering the low power levels...