Crossbars (bowed not bent it) worth it?

[jacquie schabot]

Good afternoon gurus,

Long time observer, first time poster. Jeremy & Jacquie here, Jeremy writing. We own a 2004 EB Sportsmobile with a powered penthouse lift. We have noticed some bowing in the crossbars over time and had geared up to sleeve the crossbars and replace the shoulder bolts after doing a lot of research on the forum. For reference we had a coat of bed-liner applied to the roof (the fiberglass was yellowing and cracking), we put a 230 lb Aluminess rack on top, solar that adds another 35 lbs, a rooftop box that weighs roughly 50 lbs (up seasonally), and a fly rod holder that weighs around 20 lbs. All told, probably a ballpark of 350 lbs added.

After reading the myriad of posts on the topic and watching Larrie Easterly's video on bolt replacement several times, I exposed all of the stuff today. Bars are definitely bowed when raised, took a picture of one, the rest have the same amount of bowing.

When I felt inside the base of the aft portion of the crossbars, both sides feel like they have been sleeved, at least have something inside the inside diameter of the crossbar at the base. Someone mentioned that they started doing at the factory for electric raised penthouses around our model year. I don't know if anyone can verify.

What I'm left with now is a decision point on how far to go. Do I brace the top and replace the stuff I can leaving the crossbars inplace. I have the parts on hand to replace the cross bolts and spacers with the appropriate McMaster-Carr parts mentioned in other posts. I do not have the bolt for the crossbar connection toward the fore portion of the cabin, but could easily order if anyone knows the size off-hand.

I could also employ the in-place crossbar straightening strategy I have seen posted elsewhere in the forum, but that may be really difficult if they are sleeved as I suspect...

The aft bolts are my hangup in any thought of flipping the crossbars. My floorpan has cabinets at the rear of the drivers side:

This is the trim inside of the cabinet, no precut access point. You can see the gray upholstery fabric, the upper white portion is the top of the cabinet, I am guessing pressboard covered with a laminate?:

Reluctant to pull out the cabinetry, lest it fall apart. Most advice I've read said to avoid removal because of the likelihood of damage to RV type cabinetry when doing so. I could cut an access point to that aft bolt, but am hesitant.

I've also read of folks using 2x4s, dowels, 'kick-stands' at the corners of the penthouse for added peace of mind...totally not above that.

Curious as to how the group would tackle this...what juice would be worth the squeeze. Hoping someone can give me some sage advice. Boywonder?

With that said, here are additional pictures of the lift mechanism for reference:


Drivers side fore crossbar base connection

Drivers side cross point bolt:

Drivers side aft crossbar base connection, (two views):

Passenger side fore crossbar base connection:

Passenger side cross point bolt:

Passengers side aft crossbar base connection:

 

[Twoxentrix]

First off, I don’t believe your roof rack is 230lbs - that may be the shipping weight. Believe most are between 80 and 110lbs.
From the pictures I’m going to guess you haven’t greased any of the moving parts associated with raising the roof (best to use a lithium grease on all parts that move, including the bottom track). Clean out the debris from the track before you put the grease on since the debris can create friction in itself. I also spray some of the grease in the area the cross bar sits & pivots in on the two panels attached to the roof.
It is a good idea to replace the cross bar bolts since they tend to give way - Boywonder has several threads where he explains this in detail.
I have quite a bit of weight on my roof rack and my bars have a very slight bend (maybe just less than what your picture with the 2x4 shows). I would use a support at each corner to help relieve some of the weight stress on the system when the top is up.
When I talked to SMW years ago about weight limits for the power roof they ended suggesting I stay in the neighborhood of 150 to 160lbs (that included the rack). For the last 10yrs I’ve had about 185lbs on mine with no issues. With what you’ve listed you may be running around 200lbs+.
I don’t put much weight in my Thule box, just light bulky items to allow for more space in the van, I’d look at that to see if you can save some weight there. You could consider using a set of the Awning Brackets offered through member 1der’s business site, and mounting your fly rod holder from the drivers side roof gutter…similar to how an awning is mounted.
Could also (If you have a rear spare hanging behind the rear doors) consider a ‘mount’ you can utilize to place a box on top of the tire for added exterior storage.

Hooke Road Universal Spare Tire Utility Basket Fits for 30" to 40" Tire for Jeep Wrangler JK JL TJ YJ CJ & Ford Bronco

Name: Hooke Road Universal Spare Tire Utility Basket Fits for 30" to 40" Tire Feature Universal fits for 30" to 40" diameter spare tire Fits for Wrangler JL JLU 2018 to 2025, JK JKU 2007 to 2018, TJ 1996 to 2006, YJ 1987 to 1995, CJ5 CJ7 CJ8 1976 to 1986, Ford Bronco 2021 to 2025 and your RV, or...

www.hookeroad.com

I use one of these which holds a large sized Pelican Storm case:

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChsSEwjA59HrroyNAxXPNAgFHTP2JzQYACICCAEQHRoCbWQ&co=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwOfR666MjQMVzzQIBR0z9ic0EAQYASABEgLu-PD_BwE&cit=EAIaIQobChMIwOfR666MjQMVzzQIBR0z9ic0EAQYASABEgLu-PD_BwE&ei=y7MYaMviG4GmptQPofXBgQU&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAASJeRoyR3XW32n-1bAMdNh8W7M4Sht3T72cu0iK0oOVF_-FLAU9VU&sig=AOD64_0Zq4xATiYtEnvCjz9P_y6t70X37Q&ctype=5&q=&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwiL9MzrroyNAxUBk4kEHaF6MFAQwg8oAHoECA8QDQ&adurl=

 

[jacquie schabot]

Thank you for the reply Twoxentrix.

You are likely right about the roof rack. I grabbed the weight off the Aluminess website, probably the shipping weight, I remember it was packed very well. My wife & I were able to yard it up there when we put it up, didn't seem that heavy at the time.

I will give the track and moving parts a good cleaning and hit all you mentioned with lithium grease...I have obviously neglected to do so. I'll replace the shoulder bolts and then fashion some corner supports that are more purpose-made than the 2x4s I use as an extra measure of safety in the winter.

Those are great mounting solutions. I will certainly put those in the back pocket. We empty the Thule whenever the penthouse is raised, mostly keep chairs/skis up there depending on the season. That 50 lbs for the box was also grabbed off the website, probably the shipping weight and actually a little lighter.

I feel a better about the slight bow, at least I have a photo now for reference to keep an eye on it moving forward.

Thanks again, very much appreciated.

 

[Tadias]

I had a full rack w decking up top too w solar panels. I did two things to deal w the bowed tubing. 1) I cut 44 pounds of unnecessary aluminum of the rack. I figured that wouldn’t hurt since the more weight I can take from up high the better (we do pucker terrain). That didn’t fix it completely so I added 4 lengths of angle iron (rounded the corners sanded and painted black etc.) to the tubes. To do this I raised the roof and braced the top with wooden struts to take out the bow and removed the pivot bolt only, one side at a time. Clamped the angle iron on and drilled through the each end and then through the tube and placed a bolt through w acorn nuts. These can be a small gauge since their only purpose is to keep the angle iron from twisting under load. Drilled through the center where the pivot bolt needed to pass. Put a longer bolt in and then moved on to the other side. If you chose to do this make sure to use a grade 8 bolt. I originally used a 5 and it snapped from the strain after awhile.
The bend now is imperceptible, the top isn’t as jiggly and I have zero concern now for the tube buckling.

 

[Twoxentrix]

Don 't believe these is much of a chance the bars will actually 'buckle', but I'm all about upgrading for peace of mind...Really would like to see some pic's of the your 'supports' since it would clarify what your 'end result' actually looks like Tadias - any chance you could supply some pic's with the top in the raised position? Your approach sounds very interesting.

 

[Tadias]

I’ll see if I can get those pics to you soon, van is in the shop at the moment getting an exhaust upgrade but I’ll be out and about tomorrow so I’ll try to stop by the shop. Maybe they’ll never buckle maybe they will. The thing with tubular steel is that it will bow until it decides to bend at a singular spot, at which point you’re dealing with something much different than a disconcerting bow. I wasn’t going to tolerate the risk and aside from cutting, sanding and painting the angle iron, the project only took a few hours(worth every minute).
There are at least a few accounts of bent crossbars detailed here in the forums. With the extra weight you’ve added up top there’s just more risk. I believe you have the same rack that I have the ‘Aluminess Weekender’. That’s not a shipping weight(and we also rock a Skybox). Like I said I cut 44 pounds of the aluminum off and that wasn’t by far the majority of the rack so I don’t doubt for a moment that the weight listed on Aluminess’ site is accurate.

 

[Twoxentrix]

I believe you have the same rack that I have the ‘Aluminess Weekender’. That’s not a shipping weight(and we also rock a Skybox). Like I said I cut 44 pounds of the aluminum off and that wasn’t by far the majority of the rack so I don’t doubt for a moment that the weight listed on Aluminess’ site is accurate.

Weight limitations for a pop-top is a pretty common question (and important for owners to know), so in the spirit of accuracy for those that may visit this thread in the future:

The 'old' & the new E-350 extended-body Roof racks currently listed with Aluminess actually weigh around 125lbs. It's also essentially the same for either perforated or slat flooring options. Stands to reason then the RB's will come in about 15lbs (or so) lighter.
The rack weight listed on the Aluminess web site is in fact 'shipping weight', not actual rack weight.

 

[vandiesel]

When I did mine I just had chromoly tubing bent instead of sleeves. It is more expensive but also much stronger.

 

[jacquie schabot]

Thank you everyone for the replies. We ended up replacing the pivot bolts with shoulder bolts, cleaning and lubricating the lift mechanism with lithium grease, and fashioning the oak dowel supports for peace of mind.

(Taken with 0.5...the are more vertical than they appear)

With the dowels in place, the flexing of the bars is imperceptible. The crossbars were 'pre-sleeved' at the factory BTW, or someone did so before it became ours.

Weight limitations for a pop-top is a pretty common question (and important for owners to know), so in the spirit of accuracy for those that may visit this thread in the future:

The 'old' & the new E-350 extended-body Roof racks currently listed with Aluminess actually weigh around 125lbs. It's also essentially the same for either perforated or slat flooring options. Stands to reason then the RB's will come in about 15lbs (or so) lighter.
The rack weight listed on the Aluminess web site is in fact 'shipping weight', not actual rack weight.

Thanks for the followup on the weight, certainly gives me a bit more peace of mind.

 

[Twoxentrix]

I like the ceiling mounts you pictured that accept the top of the corner supports you made (so they don't move or slide), do you mind sharing what those are Jeremy? They accept the width of the rubber feet better than the closet rod holders I used.

 

[jacquie schabot]

For sure, they took a bit to find, ended up locating them on Amazon:

Stainless Steel Heavy Duty Closet Rod Holder,Shower Curtain Rod End Supports Socket,Flange Rod Holder Closet Pole,Adjustable Tightness easy installation (2 INCH, Black)

 

[Tadias]

Sorry this took so long but my rig was getting a custom transmission built so it’s been away for awhile.
This is with the weight of the aluminess weekender(minus the cutoffs), two solar panels, offroad lights, two maxtrax, a Yakima skybox, and the bed platform with an additional two inch memory foam pad and feather duvet. The additional support has been in place for two years and doesn’t change anything functionally.

 

[Twoxentrix]

Thank you for the follow up Tadias! That's pretty inventive - I like it.

 

[geoffff]

Hi Jeremy & Jacquie,

I couldn't help but notice the front of your van roof cutout looks really arched / bent, at least the top part. Is that just the top wood surface bent upwards?



It should have a gentle arch like this. (I presume you also have a Ford E-Series.)