Fresh and gray water tank questions.

[dbhost]

So in my pursuit of electrical nirvana, I ended up with a single 400 amp hour battery instead of a pair of 200 amp hour batteries, which means with the spare tire removed from under the van, I will have an empty spot where the spare tire was.

I do have a class IV reciever hitch to install still, and once that is done I am planning on removing the spare tire winch / carrier and opening that space up.

That leaves me with a sizeable open space that I THINK I can use to install a fresh water tank, which would leave the space between the frame rail and sliding door foot well available for a gray water tank, or vice versa.

I have taken multiple CAREFUL measurements and I know I can get a 20 gallon long, and somewhat hangs down further than I would like water tank between the frame rail and footwell. I would like to have at least 16 gallons fresh onboard, and maybe 10 gallon gray water capacity.

My shower is external in an ensuite tent, I capture gray, when I have to or it is a good idea to, in a pop up doggie pool in the shower room.

This puts me in the position to wonder...

#1. What size tank will fit in the spare tire well, assuming I have no conflicts with the exhaust routing of course... I looked previously and seem to recall it runs outside of the frame rail behind the rear axle. What capacity?
#2. How would I go about getting gray water into the tank if I use the one between the frame rails for gray water as the line would have to go UP over the frame and then back down creating a trap of sorts.
#3. How can I get the gray water out of my doggie pool and into the gray tank? I am thinking a Harbor Freight manual fluid transfer pump into the sink drain.
#4. How do I set up gray tank dump? I am not going to be chucking large solids down the gray tank, larger food bits would be screened out just like I do at home. So would a simple 3/4" GHT ball valve and small garden hose suffice?

 

[kbeefy]

Ball valve will work fine, many do it. Some even use an electrically actuated one.


A small transfer pump might even be an option for your shower pan. They also make a 'Drill Pump' that is run by a electric drill, if you happen to carry a drill and/or driver onboard.


I've seen holding tanks designed for the spare location on transits and sprinters, maybe there is one that would work for the Econoline Spare well.


For gray water routing I like to avoid too many 'traps'. I have had issues with sink draining in the past. I did just recently see mentioned a vacuum break or check valve breather installed in the grey water fill line to help with that. I'm no plumber so maybe someone else can elaborate on their effectiveness.


Depending upon the grey tank used and it's placement, maybe you could do a 'bottom fill' going below the frame instead of over it. Or even through it if there is a hole available. I don't care for things that hang below the frame, but everyones use is different.


I have also toyed with the idea of doing a couple smaller grey tanks that could tuck up against the body and be joined into a single, multi-sectional tank to maximize storage while also reducing the amount of exposed tank below the frame. I'll come back to that after inspecting the underside of my van.

 

[dbhost]

Never heard of a spare tire replacement water tank, googled it, and whoah... They make a 37 gallon drop in with all the brackets and everything for the Sprinter. I am thinking I am going to end up with just some square-ish tank that is close enough in size and yours truly will likely have to fab the brackets...

It would be MASSIVELY labor saving to have a drop in kit for the E series vans. There are still lots of us out here.

 

[dbhost]

I just stumbled on this https://www.sportsmobileforum.com/f...ove-up-in-my-driveway-its-rusty-10698-19.html You are going to want to browse to post #170 in that thread.

@86Scotty if you see this, what are the dimensions of the tank you are using? That is EXACTLY what I am looking to do! 25 gallons is perfect. Actually 20 would be good, 25 is just better. Same issue you found other than my OE stuff is just GONE.

Okay so I know I can do 25 gallons where the spare lives, and the spare will go on the back of the van, so next is... figure out the gray water.

 

[doublevan2]

dbhosttexas -- link in post #4 appears "dead ?"

 

[dbhost]

dbhosttexas -- link in post #4 appears "dead ?"

Okay so fixed, I hope. At least it works for me.

So after looking at 86Scotty's pics in that thread, crawling under my van and seeing what is there I think I get it. The spare tire carrier doubles as a very lightweight crossmember, My reciever hitch and the angle iron brackets for the water tank should serve that same purpose, so remove the carrier, which is attached with some of those giant steel rivets, so some quality time with the angle grinder are in order...

Maximum available space and stopping at where the back of the spare tire carrier is now to permit me enough room to service my trailer wiring comfortably is 35.5" W x ~28" D (leaving at least 3" clearance to the exhaust) and 10" H if I want the tank tight to the bottom of the frame.

I see the Class A Customs 25 gallon T-2500 33.5"L x 17"W x 10"H is sized right for this placement, although plumbing would be interesting to route as it would be more or less right up against the frame so some quck 90s in / out of the tank are in order.

 

[dbhost]

So does any company make custom sizes?

 

[Orv-SMB]

#4. How do I set up gray tank dump? I am not going to be chucking large solids down the gray tank, larger food bits would be screened out just like I do at home. So would a simple 3/4" GHT ball valve and small garden hose suffice?

Most people use 3/4" garden hose for the gray tank drain. I prefer 1.5" instead because it drains quicker and is less likely to clog if any solids get in there, but it does make for a stiffer, more unweildy drain hose to store. (This is a readily available size for spa and pool hoses at hardware stores.)

I currently have a threaded fitting for connecting the hose, but I rented an RV in New Zealand that used a cam-and-groove fitting, and it was so convenient I may see if I can find something similar to use on my van. Hardware stores and industrial outfits like Grainger have a mind-boggling variety of fittings available in common sizes like this.

My tank is fitted with an RV-type slide valve but a ball valve should work fine.

It's easiest if you can make the drain come out the driver's side as that's where most RV dumps assume you have it. Mine is on the passenger side and I frequently have to go the "wrong way" through dump stations or back in. That said, this is only a minor annoyance.

 

[posplayr]

After much deliberation, I finally decided to go Full Class C. There will be a full shower/toilet surround in the rear driver's side oriented forward. All vertical dumps into the tanks are in-board of the frame rails. The dump outlets should be very similar to a standard RV configuration (1.5" Grey and 3" black). I'm pretty much starting with a blank canvas with the 2000 E-350 XLT EB with 16" steel reinforced raised top (and wheelchair lift at the side doors).

I'm planning on a Grey water and Black water on a EB behind the rear axle. After procuring an inexpensive petrol parking heater and removal of the rear a/c unit (made possible by Treligo 12V roof top air)
https://www.amazon.com/Conditioner-Treeligo-Efficient-Unit-Cooling-Only-Low/dp/B0BB9G8VR2

it all just fits into place (I think)

33 gal Fresh Tank laying under passanger side bed.
https://www.classacustoms.com/33-Gallon-Fresh-Gray-Water-Holding-Tank_p_39.html

18 gal Grey Tank under floor
https://www.classacustoms.com/WT-1850-WASTE-TANK-185-Gallon-Water-Holding-Tank-WT-1850_p_327.html

9 gal Black Tank underfloor
https://www.tank-mart.com/9-gallon-end-dump-rv-holding-tank-2698/

10 gal Manchester ASME propane with remote fill behind the axle.


The last figure is a side view of the tank hangers for grey/black. The grey is larger and closer to the rear tires improving ground clearance despite it being a full 10" deep. The black is in the rear and 6" deep. It will be possible to raise the 6" Black tank further but I'm not sure if it will change the approach angle.

 

[kbeefy]

Thanks for sharing those sources... those tanks are cheaper than I was expecting.

 

[posplayr]

Thanks for sharing those sources... those tanks are cheaper than I was expecting.

Other accessories work well just like the Real KUS but better.

270-degree sweep multi-color LED

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09RZGGW47/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The gauge above has good smoothing so I'm not sure of the quantization but it worked well enough for even a 6" sensor.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255...t_main.28.e6b91802yo6rpd&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

These are just the right size for the 18.5-gallon holding tank. Use to hold a galvanized sheet metal protective cover.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C7TZFM?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details


Cleanliness is next to Godliness, especially for black water tanks.

https://www.campingworld.com/tornad...Mq4Y7kSH00eLTm4DL8hoCouUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


EDIT:
I just saw these. They are even cheaper but i have never bought them before.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...=scene:pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller|query_from:

 

[doublevan2]

Posplayer -- where did you find -- 10 gal Manchester ASME propane with remote fill behind the axle -- and pricing ? Thanks -

 

[posplayr]

Posplayer -- where did you find -- 10 gal Manchester ASME propane with remote fill behind the axle -- and pricing ? Thanks -

This is the remote fill.

I have seen at least 3 Utube videos of people installing the fill ports below the body fully exposed.

I plan to cut a hole right in front of the driver's rear tire (wheel well)
I found a cheap alum door to cover it and that will bend to the body curvature.
I got the remote fill for $260 so they have gone up a bit.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075NN4Y7Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EP1T5U6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The tank is off my 1981 Dodge Brougham.
It is stamped 10.2 gal.
It is pretty much equivalent to this,

https://tweetys.com/manchester-tank-asme-permanent-mount-tank-7-9-gallon-32-length-x-10.aspx

 

[dbhost]

After much deliberation, I finally decided to go Full Class C. There will be a full shower/toilet surround in the rear driver's side oriented forward. All vertical dumps into the tanks are in-board of the frame rails. The dump outlets should be very similar to a standard RV configuration (1.5" Grey and 3" black). I'm pretty much starting with a blank canvas with the 2000 E-350 XLT EB with 16" steel reinforced raised top (and wheelchair lift at the side doors).

I'm planning on a Grey water and Black water on a EB behind the rear axle. After procuring an inexpensive petrol parking heater and removal of the rear a/c unit (made possible by Treligo 12V roof top air)
https://www.amazon.com/Conditioner-Treeligo-Efficient-Unit-Cooling-Only-Low/dp/B0BB9G8VR2

it all just fits into place (I think)

33 gal Fresh Tank laying under passanger side bed.
https://www.classacustoms.com/33-Gallon-Fresh-Gray-Water-Holding-Tank_p_39.html

18 gal Grey Tank under floor
https://www.classacustoms.com/WT-1850-WASTE-TANK-185-Gallon-Water-Holding-Tank-WT-1850_p_327.html

9 gal Black Tank underfloor
https://www.tank-mart.com/9-gallon-end-dump-rv-holding-tank-2698/

10 gal Manchester ASME propane with remote fill behind the axle.


The last figure is a side view of the tank hangers for grey/black. The grey is larger and closer to the rear tires improving ground clearance despite it being a full 10" deep. The black is in the rear and 6" deep. It will be possible to raise the 6" Black tank further but I'm not sure if it will change the approach angle.

Okay 2 main issues for my setup compared to your layout.

#1. I am in a standard length Econoline, not an extended length.
#2. The passenger side dinette base is where most of my interior storage is, drivers side is where the electrical and heat are. Can't use either for a water tank. They MUST be under the van.

There is SOME possibility of setting up a gray and fresh between frame rails behind the rear axle, but I am far more concerned about fresh capacity than gray. I CAN and most likely if I can't get a tank to fit my needs just continue to drain into 5 gallon flexible water bladders for gray water.

 

[posplayr]

Okay 2 main issues for my setup compared to your layout.

#1. I am in a standard length Econoline, not an extended length.
#2. The passenger side dinette base is where most of my interior storage is, drivers side is where the electrical and heat are. Can't use either for a water tank. They MUST be under the van.

If you are talking about utilizing the area where the spare tire is then the RB/EB is not an issue as they must be the same to accommodate the standard 225/245 R16 tires. So the example I showed grey/Black tanks were both under the floor in the spare area.

My setup is 16.5"+1"+11" = 28" lengthwise.

I think for National parks "self-contained" means at least as much greywater storage as fresh water. It is a good rule of thumb at least.



The only grey water tank (from ClassA Customs) that works is the same. There are other suppliers but they are generally mush more expensive

WT-1850 (16.5"x11"x34")
https://www.classacustoms.com/WT-1850-WASTE-TANK-185-Gallon-Water-Holding-Tank-WT-1850_p_327.html

For fresh, you can pick the 20-gallon T-2000-SP.
https://www.classacustoms.com/20-Gallon-Fresh-Gray-Water-Holding-Tank_p_34.html


This is very close to (18.5:20)~1:1. You could augment either with above-floor storage but that may be more complicated and only really work for the fresh tank. Using a transfer method you could be more flexible.

 

[dbhost]

If you are talking about utilizing the area where the spare tire is then the RB/EB is not an issue as they must be the same to accommodate the standard 225/245 R16 tires. So the example I showed grey/Black tanks were both under the floor in the spare area.
WT-1850 (16.5"x11"x34")
https://www.classacustoms.com/WT-1850-WASTE-TANK-185-Gallon-Water-Holding-Tank-WT-1850_p_327.html

For fresh, you can pick the 20-gallon T-2000-SP.
https://www.classacustoms.com/20-Gallon-Fresh-Gray-Water-Holding-Tank_p_34.html

I am looking at taking out the spare tire carrier assembly entirely, That gives me from the back of the existing spare tire carrier, I didn't bother measuring to the bumper as I figured I would need room for the hitch, but I have 35" between frame rails side x side, and 28" + 2" clearance to the exhaust. Some custom routing of the exhaust could probably buy me another 4".

To summarize my project, I have 3 @ Reliance AquaTainers that are 7 gallons each, and 3 @ Reliance 5 gallon flexible water carriers I use for gray. Black water is in the casette toilet and no need for a separate tank and holds 4.8 gallons. Honestly the toilet is my biggest capacity limiter but that is a sparate issue maybe for a future camper.

I am thinking about at least 20 gallons fresh capacity and as close to that as I can get in gray capacity. The space I was considering for gray water is between frame rail and foot step box for the sliding door.

I am not to the point of thinking about plumbing propane yet, mostly because I don't have anywhere for a bottle. I am using isubutane canisters in my Whsperlite Universal so far and happy with the results except one butane canister that leaked when I removed the stove from it...

 

[Orv-SMB]

I am thinking about at least 20 gallons fresh capacity and as close to that as I can get in gray capacity. The space I was considering for gray water is between frame rail and foot step box for the sliding door.

That's where the tank on my van is. I don't know what the capacity is, though. I have a 9 gallon freshwater tank and have never overflowed the gray tank (except one time when I inadvertently didn't empty it fully.)

It's a convenient spot for plumbing if your sink is on the passenger side, since it can go more or less straight down and in.

 

[arctictraveller]

This is the remote fill.]

Do you have a link to the remote fill? Thanks….

 

[posplayr]

Do you have a link to the remote fill? Thanks….

This is the remote fill.

I have seen at least 3 Utube videos of people installing the fill ports below the body fully exposed.

I plan to cut a hole right in front of the driver's rear tire (wheel well)
I found a cheap alum door to cover it and that will bend to the body curvature.
I got the remote fill for $260 so they have gone up a bit.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075NN4Y7Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EP1T5U6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[/url]

Sorry it is the second (last link above)

 

[Scalf77]

NashFuel has two different styles of mounting kits:

6FT PROPANE REMOTE FILL KIT WITH MOUNTING BRACKET RV MOTORHOME AUTOGAS LPG

6FT PROPANE REMOTE FILL KIT WITH MOUNTING RECEPTACLE RV MOTORHOME AUTOGAS LPG

I believe you can get the kit's from 6ft to 14ft in two foot increments.