Gasoline heater?

[dbhost]

As temps dip elsewhere, not yet here in coastal TX, and I contemplate my intended use of winter travel out west... I am considering heating for my van. The obvious solution would be a diesel heater, but the Chinese made ones are known to be somewhat unreliable, and of more concern, a different fuel and space sucking fuel tank than my gasoline powered van...

I could spend a pretty penny on a Webasto or Espar German made gasoline heater but their heat output at 2KW / 7K BTU is considerably lower than what would be all that useful for a van with a pop up canvas roof...

And there is the USA made Velit, about half the cost of the German MFG heaters, 4KW 14K BTU heat.

Given the options, and my desire for a common fuel source (I use a Coleman 424 multi fuel stove as well...) and the heat output, I am giving serious consideration to the Velit...

My question is how could I access the vans fuel tank for an accessory device like this?

Has anyone here installed one of these in a Sportsmobile / Econoline van? How has your experience been with it?

 

[1der]

I very much doubt Velit's heater is made in the USA. I have installed the made in China heaters and have found them very reliable if purchased from a reliable vendor. Velit may be doing additional inspection and testing on their brand units.

2kW vs 4kW - . Espar diesel 4kW is what we have for our EB Pop Top. Nice is it runs on low most of the time after bringing the cabin to temp. Bad is because it is so much heat it can short cycle leading to fouling of the atomizer screen. I make it a point to run it at max temp for about 5 to 10 mins before shutdown for travel. 2kW will run in medium more often and typically has less fouling especially with gasoline versions.

Some tips -
1. Mount the heater in a place where it is easy to get to for servicing and where it gets good air draw.
2. Outlet for heated cabin air goes as close to the floor as possible - heat rises
3. Thermostat/control gets mounted about 30" above the floor, away from the heater outlet and well below the bed platform - heat rises
4. Exhaust outlet under the van - take into consideration that it may snow a couple of feet while you are sleeping. Think about where the exhaust will be in terms of shutting down due to snow accumulation as well as CO concentrations under a rig with snow above the rocker panels.
5. Buy a couple of spare atomizer screens and tool set, that is what will need replacing at the most inconvenient moment.
6. A 12v fan or two will help move the warm air all around the cabin for a nice even temp from to back and most importantly up top when sleeping. Much hot air will be trapped under the bed platform.

Cabin heat from these types of heaters is really nice!!!

 

[dbhost]

I very much doubt Velit's heater is made in the USA. I have installed the made in China heaters and have found them very reliable if purchased from a reliable vendor. Velit may be doing additional inspection and testing on their brand units.

You may very well be correct. I don't see it listed on the web site. Others have shown them with made in USA stickers on them. However I see they claim engineered in USA, manufactured in China. If you are familiar with made in China, the biggest issue is quality control (or lack thereof) that is dependent upon the particular brand...

2kW vs 4kW - . Espar diesel 4kW is what we have for our EB Pop Top. Nice is it runs on low most of the time after bringing the cabin to temp. Bad is because it is so much heat it can short cycle leading to fouling of the atomizer screen. I make it a point to run it at max temp for about 5 to 10 mins before shutdown for travel. 2kW will run in medium more often and typically has less fouling especially with gasoline versions.

My main usage for this is to travel to where the snow is. I have lived in coastal TX basically my entire adult life... I figure in deep snow I will need heat to keep from freezing to death especially if I pop up the Penthouse roof... And I would rather have the capacity and not need it. I do agree however, even if I was going with a Diesel, run it on high for a bit before shutting down to keep it running clean.

Some tips -
1. Mount the heater in a place where it is easy to get to for servicing and where it gets good air draw.
2. Outlet for heated cabin air goes as close to the floor as possible - heat rises
3. Thermostat/control gets mounted about 30" above the floor, away from the heater outlet and well below the bed platform - heat rises
4. Exhaust outlet under the van - take into consideration that it may snow a couple of feet while you are sleeping. Think about where the exhaust will be in terms of shutting down due to snow accumulation as well as CO concentrations under a rig with snow above the rocker panels.
5. Buy a couple of spare atomizer screens and tool set, that is what will need replacing at the most inconvenient moment.
6. A 12v fan or two will help move the warm air all around the cabin for a nice even temp from to back and most importantly up top when sleeping. Much hot air will be trapped under the bed platform.

Cabin heat from these types of heaters is really nice!!!

1, 2, and 4 are very related. I plan on mounting in the drivers side in the dinette base. Snow accumulation IS a concern, and may cause me to go to the passenger side so that exhaust can be run under the awning keeping snow drifts from clogging it up... I was hoping to route the heat from the heater through the drivers side dinette base as that is where the Lifepo4 batteries will be mounted. I figure the heater can keep the batteries above the freezing point...

For point 3, I plan on putting the controller / thermostat next to where Sportsmobile mounted the Thermostat for the Starcool. So about 32" off the floor just about midway through the "house" section of the van...

For point 5, a VERY good piece of advice, thank you!

For point 6 I am installing 12v to USB charging / power ports throughout the van and replacing the original lamps with fans and LED lights as both of those will use less power than just a single incandescent bulb... My main lighting in the house will be LED light strips along each side of the bottom of the, not sure what you would call it, original van roof next to the openings for the Penthouse roof... Super low power use, lots of light, and I can do different colored lights depending on my mood... Like green and red color shifting for Christmas etc... Yeah I know dumb, but effective...

The big thing is I want to avoid having to have too many different fuel types, and gasoline heaters tend toward stupid expensive... The Velit SEEMS to have decent reviews / reliability. And FWIW I was originally going to go with a Vevor 5KW 15 Liter tank diesel heater. I just figure with gasoline I can tap my van fuel tank and have heat when I want it... Mostly to keep from freezing while I am sleeping...

I am not necessarily wedded to the idea of the Velit and if there are other quality and budget friendly gasoline heaters out there, I am all ears. So far I have found the Velit at $649.00, the Espar units that seem to run the range of $1799.00 to $2999.00 and the Webasto Air Top Evo 40 at $1549.00. The difference in price between the Velit and the Webasto is right at $900.00! That is not as much as it used to be, but still That is a nice fridge AND stereo head unit kind of money...

 

[Mikerson]

My question is how could I access the vans fuel tank for an accessory device like this?

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but my understanding is that it is illegal (for safety reasons) to tap into the fuel tank on a road going vehicle. I usually like to cite my sources, but I have only read this on net forums. I have been tracking these types of heaters for a while because I would rather have this than propane for all the reasons you described. Anyway, you might want to look into this before you pull the trigger. Good luck.

 

[Orv-SMB]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but my understanding is that it is illegal (for safety reasons) to tap into the fuel tank on a road going vehicle. I usually like to cite my sources, but I have only read this on net forums. I have been tracking these types of heaters for a while because I would rather have this than propane for all the reasons you described. Anyway, you might want to look into this before you pull the trigger. Good luck.

That's a new one for me. What agency regulates that?

 

[Mikerson]

I would guess Department of Transportation?

 

[sn0mad]

... my understanding is that it is illegal (for safety reasons) to tap into the fuel tank on a road going vehicle. I usually like to cite my sources, but I have only read this on net forums.

doesn't Sportsmobile tap into the gas tank for the generator when so equipped?

 

[Orv-SMB]

doesn't Sportsmobile tap into the gas tank for the generator when so equipped?

I'm under the impression that's pretty standard practice on motorhomes. This is the first I've heard of it being illegal.

 

[dbhost]

There are aftermarket fuel pump pickup plates that literally have a port for a dip tube that I belie4ve Sportsmobile uses for Generator equipped vans. Pleaseureway does the same, I am not talking about punching a hole in the tank itself, but rather using a port in the top plate of the fuel pump assembly.

I googled rather extensively and could not find any reference to pulling fuel from the main fuel tank for an accessory device to be illegal. If it was RVIA would have a conniption fit...

 

[landcruisin-SMB]

Do you have a hot water heater on board? I've been looking at the AquaHot systems. Basically a blower coil + water heater combo. A bit spendy, but also does 2 things in 1.

I was reading that the gasoline air heaters tend to coke up more than the diesel ones which was surprising to me, and that the gas ones sometimes struggled more with altitude too, only being rated up to 7200'.

 

[dbhost]

Do you have a hot water heater on board? I've been looking at the AquaHot systems. Basically a blower coil + water heater combo. A bit spendy, but also does 2 things in 1.

I was reading that the gasoline air heaters tend to coke up more than the diesel ones which was surprising to me, and that the gas ones sometimes struggled more with altitude too, only being rated up to 7200'.

Yes and no. My hot water heater is a portable propane unit not really tied to the vans plumbing, or right now complete lack thereof... My shower enclosure is external to the van so I hadn't considered onboard water heating important.

The hydronic systems are nice in a way, but the description from that MFG bothers me in that it touts moist heat. If I wanted moist heat I could have used a Portable Buddy heater...

Most of the Diesel / Gas heaters are elevation limited due to the controller, Velit says theirs are good to 16K ft. Considering I don't plan on driving my van up Denali, I am pretty sure elevation isn't going to be a problem for me...

On the Coking issue, yes that is a known problem, and gassers are known to coke up more than Diesels. The solution is the same though, Run them on high for a brief period, 15 to 30 minutes before shutting it down. And I am certain there is annual maintenance that has to happen to keep it at bay...

 

[landcruisin-SMB]

I'll admit that calling it moist heat isn't great marketing, but there's no combustion in the cab, unlike a Mr buddy. However, what they're getting at is they aren't bringing in outside air, heating it up, then dumping it into the cab, which can dry out a small space pretty quickly. Technically a good burner heater (I actually don't know if those are direct or indirect) install isn't either as it should be using the air from inside the van, but lots of people use outside air for whatever reason. You could argue that the lower discharge temp of a blower coil or radiant will be higher humidity than the high discharge temp of a burner unit, but that's localized and should be pretty close once it all mixes.

I live at 8500' and travel around the Rockies a good bit so I'm a little extra sensitive to that kind of thing. However someone claiming to have a controller that works up to 16k' makes me want to drive Mt Evans and find out!

 

[Orv-SMB]

I gotta say I was skeptical of the hydronic systems until I rented a motorhome in New Zealand that had one. It was really nice. I did wonder what the power drain was like, though, since it seemed to run continuously at whatever temperature setting I set it to.

 

[IanF-SMB]

Did your van come with a rear heating system from the engine?

Espar makes a petrol coolant heater/boiler. It's not cheap (the diesel version is cheaper) but should work to plumb into the rear heater box. Output between 1.8 - 5.0KW (6,100 - 17,000BTU). My plan is to run pipe it through a water-water heat exchanger to use as a water heater for the kitchen sink as well as a separate one for a recirculating shower.

https://www.heatso.com/espar-hydronic-b5e-petrol

 

[dbhost]

Did your van come with a rear heating system from the engine?

Espar makes a petrol coolant heater/boiler. It's not cheap (the diesel version is cheaper) but should work to plumb into the rear heater box. Output between 1.8 - 5.0KW (6,100 - 17,000BTU). My plan is to run pipe it through a water-water heat exchanger to use as a water heater for the kitchen sink as well as a separate one for a recirculating shower.

https://www.heatso.com/espar-hydronic-b5e-petrol

Nope. Technically it was an RV Prep package, so basically a cargo van with a fancy cab interior. So I have power windows, door locks, nice headliner etc... but behind the drivers / passengers seat was empty from Ford. No rear heat.

 

[scuba-ClassB]

To the OP, I just purchased the newest Espar gasoline heater last week. It is the one recommended most by the people I spoke with and googled, and I'm putting my money where my mouth is b/c I'm installing it to replace a Pro-air "gen 1" gasoline heater that probably ran for less than 10 hours total in my 2 years of having it.

This is the one you want "B2L-AS3." There is more discussion at Transit forums.

Finally, I second what 1der said about accessibility. My upfitter who installed the Pro-air (now bankrupt / AWOL) heater, put it in a place where I basically have to disassemble my van interior to get to, and what I've learned since is that these things absolutely require maintenance. (ugh) good luck.

 

[1der]

scuba/ anyone else - I would be very interested in knowing what the actual amp draw is for the hydronic space heating parts of the system.

My thoughts are there is a pump for the water and a fan to move the air through the water to air radiator. Or in a floor heated system with radiant tubing in the floor I am guessing there must be a second water circulation pump. I am thinking these might be significant overnight draws required to keep the interior warm at say 0 deg F.

We have hydronic radiant floor heat throughout our house and we really love it. We also have two large gas fire places to supplement and quickly heat the air space in the house since hydronic is slow to react and raising the thermal temp of hardwood or tile floors should be done slowly anyway.

I just cannot wrap my head around hydronic floor tubing for heat application in a van based camper. Class A - maybe. But it seems popular so I think I am missing something in its real world usage.

 

[landcruisin-SMB]

Love that the forum occasionally logs me out when I post...had a nice long write up and it decided to log me out halfway through writing it.

Anyway, the short of it - probably only need like a 20-50w pump for a tiny radiant system in a van. Fractional amp draw. Which means very little battery use. It's also silent, takes up no space, and people like warm feet.

It can be a pain because it takes awhile and would be really hard to retrofit into anything already built out. But could be used to keep water tanks warm too.

Overall, hydronic probably only makes sense if you also want it to do DHW or engine coolant preheat. Otherwise an air unit requires no plumbing.

 

[dbhost]

So the plan for NOW is... Hold off on the heater. Use my Buddy Heater to drive the chill off as needed. Until next year when...

Take the van in for the 4x4 conversion / rear door spare tire carrier. The spare tire well under the van will house a custom battery box to hold the 400 amp hours of Lifepo4 batteries. And in turn that will open up 3/4 of my drivers side dinette base storage for a Diesel or gasoline heater.
At that point, make my decision. I already have a Vevor 5KW with 15Liter tank, my van has a 35 gallon tank, and calculated MPG on my trip to TX Ren Fest over the weekend it delivered just over 17mpg in a 1993 4.9L E250, 4wd conversion will pull that back somewhat... Some added engine / exhaust mods coming to bump power and efficiency numbers up. Not a hot rod by any means, but aiming for reliable and steady, on the flat, pulling mountains, whatever.
I like the idea of the Diesel heater, but hate having to use yet another kind of fuel.

Hydronic is interesting, if I were starting over again with just a box with a Penthouse top / Colorado Campervans pop top not particular, I would probably start with Hydronics, but just seems like a royal PITA to retrofit.

 

[RVflyfish]

Will you heat or insulate that under van battery box?