Help: difference between 4x4 systems

DA

davewadd

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Joined
Aug 3, 2015
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I'm a newbie, shopping for an affordable pre-owned 4x4 Sportsmobile.
I have seen vans offered that seem to offer various different 4x4 systems.

I'm not a rock-crawler guy, so long-travel isn't a big conern, but I do need good snow, mud, and soft-sand capability.....so, here's my question(s):

Are there big differences for general off-road and on-road performance and reliability between a Quigley 4x4, the Atlas system, and whatever system "Advanced" uses?
- note, I'm looking at E350 vans.

Sorry for being such a newb.. :e5:

Dave
 
Without going into detail I will add a couple more systems:

Ujoint Offroad Leaf Sprung

Expovans Coil Sprung ( Also available from Ujoint)

Agile Offroad TTB

These listed above will be somewhat superior to the others you mentioned and are preferred systems. If you are shopping used, you may want to consider buying a used stock van and having them convert it for you. If you buy any of the three you listed, you will want to contact Agile Offroad and get an improvement kit. The three you mentioned have low bumpstop clearance and very poor road manners for the most part. A proper set of shocks, springs, and steering dampeners would be required to get rid of the harsh ride and improve the bottoming out effect, over-steer and wobble.

I was a newb to this in July. Bought a used stock E350. Had Agile-Offroad convert it for me, and now have a terrific setup IFS - Twin Traction Beam type setup. I can't comment on Ujoint and Expo as to how they drive, but they are absolutely the best of the best for straight axle conversions and are active on these forums and Expedition Portal.

There are others here who know a lot a lot a lot more than me. I can answer more questions on the Agile Conversion if you like.
 
Last edited:
Can I ask....what was the approximate cost for your 4wd conversion out the door? Including all components,,,shocks, springs, any modifications, etc.
Thanks
 
What rallypanam said.

One thing you will have though is a top notch 4x4 system that is brand new. So you really have to weigh buying a used 4X4 system or getting a used van and converting it.

But you should drive any used van in a bunch of scenarios. When I took my van down to be converted, I drove the owners van and was sold right there.
 
Certainly converting a van is a good option, but nothing wrong with Quigley or SMB conversions. They may not have the best ride from the factory, but can be improved.
 
davewadd said:
I'm a newbie, shopping for an affordable pre-owned 4x4 Sportsmobile.
I have seen vans offered that seem to offer various different 4x4 systems.

I'm not a rock-crawler guy, so long-travel isn't a big conern, but I do need good snow, mud, and soft-sand capability.....so, here's my question(s):

Are there big differences for general off-road and on-road performance and reliability between a Quigley 4x4, the Atlas system, and whatever system "Advanced" uses?
- note, I'm looking at E350 vans.

Sorry for being such a newb.. :e5:

Dave
Click to expand...

You have found the home of Ford 4 wheel drive van guys. No better place. No better advice. Don't apologize for being a noob. We're glad to have you.
The other place to learn is the 4wd camper van section at Expedition Portal, but you will find much less biased advice here.

I'll throw out my answer though the ones you've gotten are good and more will come.

"Are there big differences for general off-road and on-road performance and reliability between a Quigley 4x4, the Atlas system, and whatever system "Advanced" uses?"

No. And these are all 3 what you would expect to find in an older SMB or offroad (Ford) camper van. They do the job but can all be improved.

The second three are newer to the game and offer an arguably superior product, but also cater to those wanting to pay for such.

I never had any trouble getting anywhere I wanted to go with a 6" lifted 1995 Quigley SMB.

Welcome. Keep reading.

:b5:
 
I did a lot of research before doing my 4x4 conversion. Most of the shops will tell you that a conversion will cost you about $13,000 or $14,000. The reality is that the $13 or $14K is the cost of the base conversion, but it does not cover all of the additional items that are generally unavoidable when you do a conversion. This includes wheels, tires, bushwackers, rear axle gear ratio change, fuel tank modifications, the occasional bearing, and a few more this and thats that happen along the way.

Every shop breaks things down differently, and includes different items in their base cost, but the bottom line is that in the present market--after obtaining quotes from four different shops that specialize in Ford vans and are well-known in the industry--it was my observation that all of the shops are very similar in price, and the real-world, out the door cost of a 4x4 conversion is about $18,000. When all was said and done, my final tab was just under $19K.

I started my project with a budget of $13K for a conversion, and a slush fund of $2K--this was based on extensive phone conversations with multiple shops--and I thought I had everything covered. After I bought my 2WD van, I went back to those same shops and obtained quotes on paper, and made sure that every detail was covered. It was only then that I discovered the true cost of the project. This is not to say that any of those shops attempted to deceive me during initial conversations. I don't think they did. It is to say, however, that none of them fully identified all of the costs until they sent me actual quotes.

Bottom line, from my perspective (and, of course, all of this depends on many factors, including the condition of, and the existing equipment on, the van that you are converting): if you have $15K to spend, you probably will come up short. If you have $20K in the kitty, you'll probably have something left when you are done.
 
rallypanam said:
Certainly converting a van is a good option, but nothing wrong with Quigley or SMB conversions. They may not have the best ride from the factory, but can be improved.
Click to expand...

Not sure if it was meant this way but an SMB conversion with the Atlas transfer case and dynatrac axle isn't B league compared to Ujoint or Agile or anything for that matter.

Quigley is definitely B or C league and anything associated with Javier or Crow's don't look twice.
 
Where do you live? Take into consideration the proximity of the the shop you use, as there may be things that pop up that need to be addressed. I had a project van converted to 4X4 by CCV, came out nice. My other choice is/was Boulder off road, they've sorted a few things for me over the years on my Quigley and put together some pretty burly 4X4 conversions.


'03 Ford E350 7.3L Diesel
RB "50" SMB
Quigley 4X4, Deaver's and RIP kit
CCV high profile pop top
 
JoeH said:
Not sure if it was meant this way but an SMB conversion with the Atlas transfer case and dynatrac axle isn't B league compared to Ujoint or Agile or anything for that matter.

Quigley is definitely B or C league and anything associated with Javier or Crow's don't look twice.
Click to expand...

No, it was in reference to Flux's comment.

And I would argue with Quigley being B or C. Nothing wrong with a Quigley, and they have FAR more vans out there than probably all other converters combined. Certainly shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Crows.

As for SMB conversion, it's stout and reliable, but the ride quality leaves a bit to be desired.
 
All good feedback. Thanks. Please keep it coming.
For the record, I'm in Southern California, near the beach in LA. I need a good freeway ride, because it can be a ways to get to the outskirts from here, and I regularly tow a 4000lb trailer load to so-cal race tracks....a good road-ride us important along with traction in soft-sand, dirt, and snow.
 
rallypanam said:
No, it was in reference to Flux's comment.

And I would argue with Quigley being B or C. Nothing wrong with a Quigley, and they have FAR more vans out there than probably all other converters combined. Certainly shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Crows.

As for SMB conversion, it's stout and reliable, but the ride quality leaves a bit to be desired.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no doubt. Crow's is a F. As for ride quality, I would argue that is mostly a function of the springs and not the overall package. The original ARB springs when SMB started doing their own conversion circa 2003/2004 were not up to the task. And using the stock ford springs on the rear with lift blocks was not an ideal solution either. But they went to Betts springs and better shocks on the later models and the ride is reportedly better. Better or worse than a Ujoint with whatever leaf springs he sources? I have no idea. I put Deavers on mine.
 
One thing that should be understood is that Quigley also maintained full Ford Factory warranty on their conversions as well as crank out a whole whole lot of them. So what they might lack in terms of dialed in shocks and suspension, they surely have in reliability. But that can be fixed up pretty easy with a phone call.

SMB uses some very good quality components. Dynatrac axles are no joke! and people do ridiculous things with them. And again, they can be dialed in for ride quality.

So if you run into one of these vans used you should give it very serious consideration knowing that they can be tweaked to ride better on the road. But if you want to go all out, find a good used van and take it to a converter and make it what you want.

Highway comfort is a big one for me.
 
davewadd said:
All good feedback. Thanks. Please keep it coming.
For the record, I'm in Southern California, near the beach in LA. I need a good freeway ride, because it can be a ways to get to the outskirts from here, and I regularly tow a 4000lb trailer load to so-cal race tracks....a good road-ride us important along with traction in soft-sand, dirt, and snow.
Click to expand...

Without a doubt the best/smoothest ride is Agile's TTB conversion, done in El Cajon.
 
Another angle to examine is the technology improvement made since the conversion was first done. (If at all.).

Comparing a 32 year old conversion done by Advanced to a swap done by Agile today is pointless.

The focus in this discussion should be that a competitive market for these conversions exists. If one wants the finest result one will pay more. A complete, usable, top of the line setup will run just shy of $20,000 and no complaints will result. It will be the most technologically up to date possible.

If less is spent less will be achieved. Ride, travel, gearing, fuel capacity, performance, and even wife's smile are all on the line.

Spend it. Halfway is still halfway.


"Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money."
 
If you're in Socal, you should definitely consider Agile Offroad. Their system offers a great ride on the freeway and its plenty capable offroad. My complete conversion at Agile came in much lower than the $19-$20k costs that someone else mentioned...a lot lower.
 
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