Help identify noise Ford cold start

[Mikerson]

I'm looking for some help from the engine experts on this forum. I'm getting a terrible noise when I cold start my van and then put the engine in gear. Actually you can kind of hear it on first start in park. I made a video so you can hear that sound. You'll see it goes away in neutral.Any idea what this could be? Sounds like a bearing or something, but I have replaced the belt tensioner and idler pulley (both with motorcraft parts), and the alternator isn't 10,000 miles old yet (though it is noisy). It was 37 degrees out this morning. The sound is louder when it's colder. This will go away after the engine warms up in a couple of minutes depending on how cold it is. It's already starting to go away in the video. Trans was rebuilt less than 10k miles ago. 2001, 5.4L, 4r70W 4x4, 137k miles, sitting for 1 week before start.

I have a multi-day trip off-road trip coming up and I'm worried about something giving out on me in the middle of nowhere.

Thanks for the help!

PS: F-you to youtube for forcing this to be a "shorts" video, making it hard to embed around the web.

 

[SMB123]

Start with Occum's razor stuff. It sounds like it could be tranny related cuz of change in gears but it sounds like a change due to rpm or load as well (where less magnified in neutral).

First thoughts I had - a pulley bearing (tensioner), power steering pump, water pump, even a slipping belt.

I use a cheap stethoscope to pinpoint noises but the trick to use a larger dowel also work. Need a buddy to shift through the gears with parking brake on to pinpoint.

If you think it's hard to pinpoint a rattle or stray sound on a van - try it on a Harley - often times you "hear" it on the opposite side of the bike where it comes from.

 

[carringb]

Pretty sure that's transmission pump noise.

When it was rebuilt, did you an an external inline transmission oil filter?

 

[REF]

Ya, a friend had an old Exploder(Explorer) that sounded like that after the trans pan plug got knocked out off road and drained all his fluid. Check your level and that they put in the correct fluid.

 

[Mikerson]

Thanks all. I have been all over the accessories with a stick stuck to my ear. That and the behavior with gear position makes sense that it’s trans. I installed the transmission in the van myself and I made sure to purchase the correct motorcraft ATF (like 13 qts $$$ if I remember right). The shop that rebuilt it insisted on installing a shift kit (hate it) and I had them do an upgraded torque converter. I flushed the trans cooler with that stuff in the compressed can. Ran the whole can through. Did not install an in-line filter.

I added a little more fluid the first time I heard this sound a couple of months ago, but it didn’t get any better (maybe even worse…hard to tell with the temp changes). Have not had any impacts/contacts to the trans off road. Is this pump super-bad news??

 

[Twoxentrix]

I had a very similar sound in two other 4x4 vehicles (not the van). Initially I too suspected the trans because it was more evident while in gear. Both times turned out to be power steering pump.
When you have the engine running, and in gear, try turn the wheels both directions - does the humming sound become more pronounced? If so, this would be my direction. Otherwise, I'm with the others on the transmission since it seems noticeable only while the trans is engaged.

 

[carringb]

I’m not a fan of shift kids on fully electronic transmissions. You can get faster shifting when you want it with programming, without the unexpected harshness. They were super beneficial on the older E4OD.

Anyways…. Ford requires an online filter for warranty purposes if you installed one of their remans, unless you also replaced both coolers. If your prior transmission fully self destructed, it’s basically impossible to get all the debris out of both coolers. It’s also possible one or both coolers are have obstructions and could be constructing flow, which will also cause the pump to whine. Does the whine go away after the fluid warms up?

Also do you remember which ATF grade you used?

 

[Mikerson]

If your prior transmission fully self destructed, it’s basically impossible to get all the debris out of both coolers. It’s also possible one or both coolers are have obstructions and could be constructing flow, which will also cause the pump to whine. Does the whine go away after the fluid warms up?

Also do you remember which ATF grade you used?

The trans was fine before the rebuild. Just wanted to take care of any preventive maintenance when putting in the 4x4 output shaft. When he got it apart, the trans guy found one bushing on the planetary gear set was show a small amount of wear so the whole set was replaced to be on the safe side.

Yes, the whine does go away after the fluid warms up. On sub-freezing nights it takes maybe 30 seconds of driving (if you just start it up and throw it in drive), which seems like a long time when you’re experiencing it.

I found the receipt for the trans fluid. I put in 12 qts of Motorcraft Mercon V. I went over to the trans shop after that and we were checking it out. The fluid level was a bit low, so I think he added another quart of generic brand Mercon V.

 

[carringb]

Ok, based you that rebuild history, I think you're right that debris probably isn't a likely factor. And that is the correct fluid. No worries on generic fluid, as long as it's Mercon-V spec, and not Dex/Merc.

I think it wouldn't hurt to drop that pan, and to a filter swap. I've seen issues like this caused by a poorly fitted seal. When fluid is cold, its obviously a little thicker, and a nicked or hard seal, will cause it so suck in a little air. If you go with an aftermarket, go with Napa gold at least. Most of the cheaper aftermarket filter use a cheaper material for that seal. Plus, it would give you a chance to check for debris.

 

[Mikerson]

Thanks, I will get going on that asap. I have read a few places that it’s urgent to get pump issues taken care of to avoid catastrophic damage due to low fluid pressure. Would you recommend avoiding driving until the filter change, or is it ok to drive it for a while?
Also, I have been eyeing the threads here on the in-line magnefine filter. Probably should pull the trigger on that. Any other recommended items?

 

[carringb]

Try to avoid driving. If you must drive, try to keep avoid cold starts, and combine your trips so the fluid stays warm. Any noise it bad news, but since it goes away when it's warm, it might not be damaged yet.

I highly recommend the Magnefine filter. Once you have that in place, you don't need to drop the pan anymore.

 

[Mikerson]

Last night I drove over to a buddy’s farm shop to drop the pan and replace the filter. The van was pretty noisy from the trans getting on the highway that morning even though I let it warm up a fair amount. I dropped the pan and pulled out the old filter, which didn’t appear to be a motorcraft part. The fluid looked good with no significant pieces of metal or chunks. There was a very faint metallic shimmer on the black backside of the filter, but the particles were not big enough to feel. I doused the new motorcraft filter with ATF and installed it. The old gasket and new looked the same. There was maybe 1/16” of “sludge” on the magnet in the pan, but it wasn’t a uniform thickness. Cleaned that off, put everything back together and refilled the fluid. Even though the shop was heated, I could tell immediately that the noise was gone when I started the van to check the level compared to when I drove in (trans good and hot). Drove out the dirt farm road like I stole it trying to keep up with my buddy in his Tacoma so I didn’t get lost. No problems. Did a 31 degree cold start this morning to drive it up on ramps to setup for the magnefine install. Seems to be solved for the most part. I did put it in reverse and hold the brake down while giving it some gas. I could hear the faintest sound, but hard to distinguish over the engine running and various other sounds like the pulleys and alternator. Nobody else would have noticed. I will continue to monitor and hope that my upcoming 600 mile trip goes smoothly.

 

[marret]

Sounds promising, hope it is resolved.

 

[E-350]

My gut feeling, in case that would be my transmission. I’m not a pro, but someone how’s seen a transmission 3 times from the inside.

Old oil was sheared down, low viscous and didn’t transfer the pressure it’s supposed to do. Perhaps it was also slighty low. Add some bushing that are not new anymore (and there are a few!) and you might get the noise.

Larger tolerances/ worn bushings + lower viscous fluid…

But looking forward what pros say…