Need some advice - roof/drip rail rust on an otherwise clean E350 :(

[yonah-SMB]

Gents,

Need some advice from the gurus :e5: - especially those with experience with roof/drip rail rust treatment and repair.

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Backstory:

I found a E350 wagon locally for sale. Private party (very nice, retired couple), uncommon paint code, low miles, preferable drivetrain, new high-end tires, and, per my research of the axle tag's code, it has a full-float D60 rear end. The van was a local fleet vehicle for years - so the maintenance records are robust. The owners purchased the van a few years ago to turn into a travel vehicle, but health concerns made this unfeasible.

The interior is beautiful minus a few light blemishes here and there from normal use and the front headliner could use a recover as the fabric is separating where the headliner meets the windshield. The undercarriage has a light patina, but is otherwise spotless. I observed no leaks or signs of seepage under the vehicle. The body panels look great and I saw no evidence of body or paint work, etc.

The test drive went well. All systems appeared to function correctly (A/C, F/R vents, heat, radio, etc.). I noticed a slight wander/pull to the left at highway speed (70 mph), but other than that, it drives very well.

I told the selling party I need to do some more research and query some experts (you guys), but would reach out in a few days with either a 1) offer - pending a PPI (funded by me) at a local indy Ford shop, which they agreed to - or 2) a polite withdrawal of interest in the vehicle.

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The issue:

When I was inspecting the exterior of the van I looked at the roof and saw some light surface rust and some bubbling around the third brake light and edge of the drip rails in the rear / drivers side of the van. I expected some paint failure / light patina on the roof given my research and location (lots of sun).

However, the worst example of the rust damage is a ~6"x~4" section of the drivers side rear portion of the roof where it meets the drip rail - see below photos. This area has some heavy pitting, feels thin to the touch, and there is a BB-sized hole in the sheet metal. I checked inside the van and saw no evidence of water intrusion (stains on the headliner, etc.), but I only did a quick visual check. We get very little rain where I live, so this may be what kept this portion of the roof from decaying at an accelerated pace.

I'm really bummed out as this van is an otherwise immaculate specimen ...

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Questions:

1) To those that have dealt with rust damage/repair in/around this general area of an Econoline's roof, how bad is this example - in your opinion, should I walk or use this damage as leverage to considerably lower my initial offer (if I give one)?

2) What kind of damage should I expect to find behind this corroded area?

3) I'm handy with vehicles and have an engineering background, but I’m wise enough to know this type of repair is beyond my skill level and means to DIY (time/tools, etc.) and if I owned this van, would seek the services of a pro/craftsman to repair it - what is a rough estimate of the repair bill for the rusted areas? My goal would be to properly repair all of the rusted areas and then spray the roof with color-matched Raptor Liner, or similar UV resistant HD coating. I understand this would probably be a project split between two different shops.

Thank you in advance for the help and I look forward to reading your feedback. :b5:

V/R,

-Steve

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Photos:

 

[yonah-SMB]

Drip rail:



*apologies for the orientation of some of the photos... I corrected them on my iPhone before uploading, yet they revert back to their original orientation.

 

[1der]

First - re FF rear axle - unless you pulled a hub cap and visually confirmed a FF is really present, there is no way to tell from axle code on the door.

Rust - that is pretty bad and likely worse as the paint strips away. The gutter putty should be removed and then the whole roof should be addressed. If there is ANY concern of rust around the windshield then the windshield should be removed.

As to cost- if you go to a name collision repair place it will likely be an automatic pass on the vehicle due to cost. If you can get it up here to SF then there is a good guy who will do a very good job at a reasonable price.

Reality is the rust could return years down the road, but that could be more than ten years if addressed properly today.

If there are no other rust spots - check really carefully around the bottom of the doors, rocker panels, under the hood - then at a really, really good purchase price this would not put me off.

 

[doublevan2]

Agree with 1der - but with limited personal experience on this. What year is this van - you don't mention that ? I'm confident 1der knows his stuff and has multiple "guys" who can do almost anything regarding repairs. If it were mine to consider all roof things - drive to SF - raptor liner (partially (?), etc., I think I'd go for a fiberine top - or CCV top - but you might still be faced with some rain gutter issues/repair ? GLW decision !

 

[yonah-SMB]

First - re FF rear axle - unless you pulled a hub cap and visually confirmed a FF is really present, there is no way to tell from axle code on the door.

Rust - that is pretty bad and likely worse as the paint strips away. The gutter putty should be removed and then the whole roof should be addressed. If there is ANY concern of rust around the windshield then the windshield should be removed.

As to cost- if you go to a name collision repair place it will likely be an automatic pass on the vehicle due to cost. If you can get it up here to SF then there is a good guy who will do a very good job at a reasonable price.

Reality is the rust could return years down the road, but that could be more than ten years if addressed properly today.

If there are no other rust spots - check really carefully around the bottom of the doors, rocker panels, under the hood - then at a really, really good purchase price this would not put me off.

Ray, thank you for the advice!

Maybe I'm off here, but with regard to the axle specs, I cleaned up the tag on the D60's cover and it revealed the code 60-7026-2, which per the D60 BOM (https://www.crawlpedia.com/dana_60_bom.htm) is a 3.73 ratio 32 spline F/F. I read this a D60 Full-Float (F/F), unless I'm interpreting the acronyms incorrectly. FWIW, the van is a 2006 E350 with RSC.

I checked around the windshield, engine bay, and undercarriage - they are all very clean with a light patina that seems to be the norm for around here. No flaking or rot that you see back east. Some of the hardware under the hood was corroded, but that's it. The body panels and hood are gorgeous, I had to look very hard to find one small dime-sized shallow dent on the side of the van that was only visible at an angle. I actually checked everything from the roof down first and, due to their condition, was very surprised when I examined the roof.

Regarding the repair work, yeah assumed this was something a mainstream bodyshop would turn down. I'll be in touch if I pull the trigger for your bodywork guy's POC - need to give this a couple more days thought, but I'm leaning towards "no". Seems like a potential can of worms with a lot of unknown cost risk and the timing could be better.

Agree with 1der - but with limited personal experience on this. What year is this van - you don't mention that ? I'm confident 1der knows his stuff and has multiple "guys" who can do almost anything regarding repairs. If it were mine to consider all roof things - drive to SF - raptor liner (partially (?), etc., I think I'd go for a fiberine top - or CCV top - but you might still be faced with some rain gutter issues/repair ? GLW decision !

Year is 2006.

Good things to consider, thank you!

 

[posplayr]

It is hard to tell from the pictures but it looks like a respray where the “at the time “ rust was not properly treated. There are plenty of holes but it is all fixable. A labor of love so i would get s substantial discount. It is not enough to yotal the vehile but there is not much to make that assessment

 

[1der]

Cool, nice reference re axle listings. I would still check to validate. lol!

Good news on rust not present elsewhere. New roof metal skins are available in a worse case scenario but not cheap.

 

[Big_ern_101]

Depends on your ability. It would be an expensive repair at a shop but is relatively easy to DIY since it is both up high and a light colored vehicle - both of which hide a lot of flaws in ameteur bodywork. Also depends on how long you plan on keeping it. Repair could be anything from just working in the effected areas and tossing on a coat of marglass to cut and weld to the whole roof skin replacement.

If your ability level or tolerance for bullshit is high and the price is right I wouldn't run.

The level of quality to the repair also depends on how long you plan on keeping this vehicle. For a 1-2 year repair a guy could just grind it off, bondo it, prime and paint and be fine for a little bit.

 

[yonah-SMB]

It is hard to tell from the pictures but it looks like a respray where the “at the time “ rust was not properly treated. There are plenty of holes but it is all fixable. A labor of love so i would get s substantial discount. It is not enough to yotal the vehile but there is not much to make that assessment

I agree and thought the same regarding the respray. I do not think this is the work of the current owners, but was likely painted prior to selling it to them. I would venture to guess they have never looked at the roof.

Cool, nice reference re axle listings. I would still check to validate. lol!

Good news on rust not present elsewhere. New roof metal skins are available in a worse case scenario but not cheap.

Can't take credit for that, I discovered the D60 BOM via this Youtube video:

But yes, understood the only way to be sure is with a visual inspection of the hub.

If I decide to move further I will schedule another showing and do a more thorough examination of the windshield area, and may try to get a peek behind the some of the rear trim, under the rear cargo mat / floor mats, etc.

I honestly think, given the condition of the rest of the van, the paint on this portion of the roof failed due to a specific set of conditions - maybe it was parked long term in a partially shaded parking spot / under a big tree or a heavy/deep paint chip was created by a piece of road debris/rock and was never treated. The owners told me that the van's previous life was a transport vehicle for a local daycare center, where it was used for in and around trips and sat a lot after the center purchased a Ford Transit - the employees preferred driving the Transit. The daycare story also makes sense given the spec of the van - XL trim (spartan interior, rubber floor mat, no cruise or tow package), RSC upgrade, etc.

Depends on your ability. It would be an expensive repair at a shop but is relatively easy to DIY since it is both up high and a light colored vehicle - both of which hide a lot of flaws in ameteur bodywork. Also depends on how long you plan on keeping it. Repair could be anything from just working in the effected areas and tossing on a coat of marglass to cut and weld to the whole roof skin replacement.

If your ability level or tolerance for bullshit is high and the price is right I wouldn't run.

The level of quality to the repair also depends on how long you plan on keeping this vehicle. For a 1-2 year repair a guy could just grind it off, bondo it, prime and paint and be fine for a little bit.

Yeah, lots of risk and a lot to consider - at my age and phase of life, I'm more on the risk averse side. Could be a relatively simple fix or something much worse. There are a few, albeit minor, additional compromises with this van, so as I mentioned above, I'm leaning towards a no go. But I could always give a very low offer, explain my position, and like Ray and others have mentioned, the juice could be worth the squeeze in that scenario.

I'd want to keep the van for at least a decade. The goal would be to make this a weekend warrior, travel trailer puller, camping/mtn biking vehicle to enjoy with the kiddos (big family, so I want a van for these kind of getaways). I say that as I would want the repair done right.

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I'll keep you guys posted.

And thanks for the members that have shot me PMs sharing their opinions and past experiences. Much appreciated.

-Steve

 

[Big_ern_101]

Based on that you want this vehicle for 10 years, do you really want to be driving a stripper XL spec vehicle? I sure don't.

Just because this is local and popped up doesnt mean you have to jump on it. Lets go through the list....

I found a E350 wagon locally for sale.

Convenient, but a flight to anywhere in the USA for a rust free vehicleis around $500 and you can't get much rust repair for $500

Private party (very nice, retired couple)
Other than cheating taxes and maybe a lower price there is no advantage to buying private party. There are plenty of disadvantages.

uncommon paint code,
This I understand - I am picky about color as well.


low miles,
How low is low? Unless this is some 30k mile creampuff...doesnt matter much especially if you are gonna drive the wheels off it.


preferable drivetrain,
Which is...? 7.3s are preferred for some reason, Cummins swaps are nice if done well - but cant always be registered in some states, but otherwise they are all pretty common and easy to find.


new high-end tires
This is like $1k - doesnt get you much for rust repair

and, per my research of the axle tag's code, it has a full-float D60 rear end.
Junkyard swap is relatively easy and again, cheaper than rust repair and way easier to find a shop to do it. If you are gonna go 4x4 this axle should come out for an F350 axle anyway.


The van was a local fleet vehicle for years - so the maintenance records are robust.
I would rather have a private party owned than a fleet vehicle. I have seen what guys do to things they don't own. At the end of the day these are robust and simple vehicles, there isn't much deferred maintenance that will put you in the poor house. Its not a Lamborghini.


The interior is beautiful minus a few light blemishes here and there from normal use and the front headliner could use a recover as the fabric is separating where the headliner meets the windshield.
Average condition, same as every other used vehicle out there.



The undercarriage has a light patina, but is otherwise spotless. I observed no leaks or signs of seepage under the vehicle.
So basically the same as any other vehicle from outside of the salt belt.


The body panels look great and I saw no evidence of body or paint work, etc.

What about the roof?


The test drive went well. All systems appeared to function correctly (A/C, F/R vents, heat, radio, etc.). I noticed a slight wander/pull to the left at highway speed (70 mph), but other than that, it drives very well.


That sweet fleet maintenance left it with a nice pull to the left. Sounds like it needs front end work, like they all do. Gonna chew up those nice new tires

In short, there are tons of these vehicles out there and this one is nothing special. If you don't want to do rust repair, walk.

 

[posplayr]

I'd want to keep the van for at least a decade. The goal would be to make this a weekend warrior, travel trailer puller, camping/mtn biking vehicle to enjoy with the kiddos (big family, so I want a van for these kind of getaways). I say that as I would want the repair done right.

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-Steve

If this were a vehicle that met my needs (excluding the roof), I would figure an appropriate discount for the roof and make an offer to the seller. You have an opportunity to get the vehicle discounted because a shop won't touch it, but a DIYer will.

With an appropriate discount, I mean what you thnk it is worth for you to do the work yourself or a trusted friend; Not a shop. There are too many places to take short cuts and leave rust on the exterior that will start to rust again.

I assume this is a central coast vehicle that may have lived in Morro Bay or someplace similar near the ocean air. So a California car, the body is going to generally be relatively rust free (except for the know problem roof areas). What probably really made it worse was the poorly guided paint repairs done by some quick-fix artist. He sanded off the OEM paint and primer to expose even more metal. An 10 years later you have more rust.

Ultimately if you use waterproof fiberglass reinforced bondo products the current condition really doesn't matter that much as long as there is some structure left in the roof after you sand the exterior down to close to base metal.

The key is to treat the rust that is there, encapsulate it with like a Por-15, and then fill in with the long hair fiberglass. You can use backing to reduce the amount of full required. With proper prep work 1/2" to 1" of fiberglass is going to be a very sound structural element and there is almost no need to do welding. It is not a show car and you are not planning on a frame-up restoration.


https://www.amazon.com/Evercoat-868...ocphy=9030230&hvtargid=pla-572414163977&psc=1


I repaired my 1997 E-350 RB in about 2015 after I figured out where that rear leak roof was coming. The vehicle lived it's entire life in Santa Barbara but still developed some roof rust (rusting through in 4-5 places).

I'm also in the process of bonding a 16" raised roof to a 2000 E-350 EB that has been leaking and rusting out the roof .

Back in about 2000 I tackled the roof line and the entire windshield area of a 1979 Dodge Brougham Motorhome. It had a very rotted-out windshield. To day it is still strong although it could use a repaint. As as far as longevity with this type of repair, done properly it will last the useful life of a vehicle .

 

[1der]

Power windows and locks - a must have, difficult to add if not equipped at original build.
Cruise - must have for me
Barn doors on side - highly desirable for us.

2006 desirable engine would be the v10 ??

Interior trim pieces around the windows and on the doors is present? Tilt out windows ?

No factory tow package but wanting to tow - I would need to do more research on what else was part of the tow option. If it is just adding a hitch receiver and wires then no biggie.

I think unless this is such a super sweet deal AND you have the time and desire to deal with the fixes, then this is not the rig for you.

 

[VanMiller]

I would take a wire wheel to the rusted area, spot weld the holes and or add some sheet metal, sand blast and apply POR15. If no holes, POR15 can be applied directly to the rusted area. I have used POR15 many times to prevent and treat rust. Be sure to buy small cans of the POR15, and cover the lid with plastic wrap before hammering the lid back on.

Also, POR15 will not work on new metal without their pre-treatment, or sand blasting. Any amount of water, even from sweat dripping into the can will ruin the entire can.

The same company also has some very good two part epoxy that could be used in place of welding.

 

[Ramjet-SMB]

I just had some rust and perforation near the upper brake light repaired, the entire drip rail redone and the whole roof repainted. Yours is far worse. Retail collision center repair could run from $3500-$7,000 at least. PM me if you decide to go forward.

 

[Glenn P.]

I just went through the roof repair on my 2005 E350. My van spent much of its life in Huntington Beach and that salt air and damp fog in the mornings did a number on the roof near the gutters all across the back and drivers side. I just had the whole roof cut off and a new one welded on. I know the roofs run about $3,500 for the part, I think I got the last one for a standard length in the country but extended body roofs are out there brand new from Ford. I'm doing a trade for the repairs with a friend who runs a body shop so I cannot comment on the full price for the replacement but I do know the roof cost.

Funny enough, when the roof arrived at the Ford dealer about 20 miles away they said it was too big for their delivery truck and they would need to send it on a flatbed at a considerable cost. I looked at my buddy and figured it can't be much bigger than, well, the roof of the van! I headed over there in my F250 longbed with a few straps and a red flag and was told to "pull my rig around back". The parts guys were dumbfounded when I loaded the thing on top of the bed, strapped it down, hung a flag on the back and drove off! I guess these Ford dealers are good at selling trucks but maybe not so smart on USING trucks! :n5:

 

[VanMiller]

I just went through the roof repair on my 2005 E350. My van spent much of its life in Huntington Beach and that salt air and damp fog in the mornings did a number on the roof near the gutters all across the back and drivers side. I just had the whole roof cut off and a new one welded on. I know the roofs run about $3,500 for the part, I think I got the last one for a standard length in the country but extended body roofs are out there brand new from Ford. I'm doing a trade for the repairs with a friend who runs a body shop so I cannot comment on the full price for the replacement but I do know the roof cost.

Funny enough, when the roof arrived at the Ford dealer about 20 miles away they said it was too big for their delivery truck and they would need to send it on a flatbed at a considerable cost. I looked at my buddy and figured it can't be much bigger than, well, the roof of the van! I headed over there in my F250 longbed with a few straps and a red flag and was told to "pull my rig around back". The parts guys were dumbfounded when I loaded the thing on top of the bed, strapped it down, hung a flag on the back and drove off! I guess these Ford dealers are good at selling trucks but maybe not so smart on USING trucks! :n5:

That’s perdy funny! What are your thoughts on having a roof LineX as a preventative measure against rust?

 

[Glenn P.]

Well the van was getting a full paint job at the time already so I just went with the original color paint up top. The van now lives where the humidity is half that of the Huntington Beach, not susceptible to salt fog in the mornings and I had my buddy paint the heck out of the roof to give me the most protection possible. IF I was still in a damp, salty environment then something more aggressive might be on my list.

Glad I was trading for the roof replacement and paint because after sitting for so long the turbo wasn't happy and needed replacement, and while you are there it's time for the EGR cooler, and heck, why not the oil cooler too. Ughhhh! Headed over to pay that bill later today or tomorrow.

 

[yonah-SMB]

Gents, after a lot of deliberation, I chose to pass on this van. The timing and my current risk profile is simply not conducive to a project like this and the van's specs didn't check all of the boxes for our family's use case.

Thanks for your patience:
1) I have been swamped with work/fam duties for the past week or so and unable to reply.
2) I was intentionally vague with my pinpoint location and specs of the van as this is an open forum and I didn't want to publicize the ad until I knew for certain that this wasn't the right vehicle for our family.

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Here is the for sale ad if anyone is interested:
Log into Facebook

...and some photos for future reference, as FB Marketplace ads expire after awhile.




















I truly appreciate all of the thoughtful and detailed input from you guys. The Gold Ash paint code is one of my all-time favorite OEM color offerings and that, along with the mileage and local listing, was what really drew me to this van. It's also a gasser, 5.4L (I know), which I mentioned was preferred due to it being a gas motor (I'm not in the market for a diesel). I think if the van had a V10 I would've tried to purchase it in the sub-$5k range and roll the dice. The rest of the van is immaculate for an '06; I simply think the roof fell prey to the constant sun and coastal moisture that rolls into Monterey/Seaside.

For anyone that is interested. The van is an XL (incorrectly noted as an XLT in the ad) and IIRC from my test drive a couple weeks ago, the back windows are not pop-outs and one of the side barn door windows is also not a pop-out. Power doors and locks. My research via Youtube and this forum leads me to believe cruise could be added for under $500, maybe less depending on the parts sourcing. The side and rear doors have, of course, the spartan door panels of the XL trim; the van also has vinyl seats and a rubber floor. The aftermarket back-up camera is a wireless unit and the display screen is not screwed into the dash, but rather wedged in place - no drilled mounting holes. The only rear blemish I could find on the interior was the headliner - the fabric is separating from the headliner and the owners have it secured with a half dozen push-pins. There is an isolated dent in the rear bumper on the drivers side and the bumper is the larger step-style (not the low profile bumper). The van does not have a tow hitch, IIRC. The owners said they have all of the seats and mounting bases in their garage.

The owners are nice people and appear to be very honest. They have a binder full of maintenance documents for the van. As others have mentioned in this thread, I think the original owner (or the lot that sold the van to them) did a hasty and cheap (possible partial) respray of the roof and that work was a band-aide job that never addressed the underlying corrosion.

That being said, the owners confirmed with me they are willing to reduce the price significantly due to the roof's condition and are willing to drop the van off at a local mechanic if a PPI is desired. For anyone that is interested, Lavender Bros Auto is right down the street from the sellers. I routinely see SMBs/F,E-Series in their lot and they confirmed a full PPI could be completed in half a day for a couple hundred bucks with a detailed write-up with photos, etc.

If any of you guys want additional details, feel free to shoot me a PM.
Cheers and thanks again,

-Steve

 

[VanMiller]

Thanks for updating us!

 

[Big_ern_101]

Calf scour brown, 5.4, RSC, XL trim....you can do way better. These are not super desirable options.

The popout window configuration is normal for an 06. Even my "Chateau" trim level - highest available in 06 - only has the drivers side front and 60% passenger door pop out, the rest are fixed. You can convert to earlier popout style windows but the tint won't match and it will drive you nuts.