New here and really need help

[NCG4]

1990 e250 coachman class b. 43,000 miles on it. Not a spec of rust. New shocks, brakes, everything rubber under the hood was replaced. Cab AC was broke and that was fixed too. Seats and couch are at the upholstery shop now. Bought this a few years ago. Started the project. My girlfriend was really into it too. Fast forward to now, that girlfriend is my wife. My son just turned 2 in December and I have a daughter who will be born this May. I have searched endlessly online to get an answer and have fallen short. I need to know if passenger seats either captain chairs or bench can be installed forward facing so I can properly secure their car seats in the van. Obviously safety is my biggest concern here. I have read on many forums and websites that to secure kids car seats properly you can not or should not be secured to the side facing couch. Mainly because those frames are made of wood. I dont want to continue taking this thing apart and removing the plywood floor if I really dont have any mounting points. I would rather just list it for sale now and kill my dreams and hopefully later on find something new. I need to make a decision on this soon so any help in this matter would truly be appreciated. I had alot of plans for this vehicle when there was just 2 of us and 2 dogs. Now with kids I'm still trying to live the dream but I have been stuck at this point for a few years now. I live in north east Pennsylvania and although 4x4 trucks , atv, and utv are big here Van builds are not. With that being said if this does get completed by me the plan is to eventually make it 4x4 too.

 

[BrianW.]

Where are you in NE PA? I’m outside of Philly. I’d be happy to connect if you’re nearby and give you a second set of eyes on the challenge. Hard to really give you an answer without seeing your actual vehicle and how the floor is built and what the frame is like. Nothing is impossible if you throw enough money at it! Even if your floor is wood, I’d think you could work with a competent welder to weld in a strong cross-brace to the frame and then bolt your seat(s) to that. Would it be DOT-approved? Probably not. Would it be strong enough? Assuming it’s done correctly, I’d think so.

Keep in mind this community mainly focuses on builds on regular van bodies and not true Class B vans like yours, so our body of knowledge won’t be as great as maybe a forum devoted to your specific manufacturer, for example. Although there are folks on here that have some expertise with them and there are certainly folks with very deep overall knowledge on van-based platforms in general, and Ford Econolines in particular.

 

[BrianW.]

Actually, I’ll amend my comments above as your pics just loaded on my phone and it looks like you are built on a Econoline full body (I assumed a cutaway cab only and an RV body). If so, I’d be surprised if you didn’t have the OEM steel floor under the plywood RV floor. And if so, you’ll likely be able to see OEM mounting points from under the van. If you can find a similar year passenger van to yours, look inside/underneath to see where the bench seats mount. Or hit up a few junkyards to see.

 

[NCG4]

I'm a little over an hour north of Harrisburg. Bloomsburg area. As far as that wood floor is concerned it's just the sub floor that was installed by coachman. It really bolted down and my luck glued too so removing it might be challenging. I completely understand what you are saying about the members and their rigs that belong to this forum in the sense that mine is a traditional class b for now lol. I was just hoping that someone here might have some experience with these older e250's or at least be able to point me in the right direction. Your comment on DOT approved is kinda one of my concerns too. I definitely have the means to get something welded to the frame BUT I guess I'm not sure if that is the route I want to go or the bigger question is , is it worth it in the long run. Believe it or not I have been on so many different sites but can never find what I'm looking for. I truly appreciate the fast response to my post though. It seems like I'm the only person trying to install kids car seats in an van like this . Its driving me nuts. I'm might even try to get an answer from ford. Am I the only one who wants to take kids out on these types of adventures lol

 

[NCG4]

Yes it is a full body. You would not believe it but I have not been able to find a picture of a 1990 e250 passenger van or really that much info on them. Every one I have seen they were just a cargo van with the 2 seats up front. Because it is your standard e250 I was hoping someone on hear has the knowledge. One of the issues also is it's a 1990. In 1991 things changed on them as far as seat mount etc...

 

[ShadetreeTim]

Mine is a 2012 E350, but the base van floor remains the same as yours, i.e., a metal floor that you can bolt through. Mine started life as a 15 passenger van with all seats being individually mounted buckets. The rear buckets simply bolted through the floor with 1/2" bolts, sandwiching the floor with large steel plates under the van. Nothing bolted or welded to the frame stock.


My first buildout was simple and I kept 2 of the rear buckets seats, relocating them where I wanted them. The stock bucket seats have integrated seat belts, so I just mounted them like the factory did, with the steel plates underneath.


With my recent buildout I found a sofa/bed from a salvage yard Conversion Van and mounted it the same way, through bolting with plates underneath. The sofa/bed was mounted in the donor van the same way. In my build I added a plywood floor and bolted the new rear seat through it.


It's too bad we don't live closer as I am currently trying to get rid of the 2 bucket seats I have left.

 

[BrianW.]

I added a third captains chair for my son (then around 7) to my 98 SMB E250, inside the barn doors behind the passenger seat. I removed the sink cabinet to find the space. You aren’t the only one! My floor is finished much as yours. To install we drilled through the subfloor and steel floor and used steel plates to reinforce underneath where the bolts came through (I think the plates came with the seat base, I can’t remember). I had a shop install it for me because of time constraints, but it would not be hard to do. I have a thread somewhere on here from back in probably 2012 or 2013 where I posted photos.

BTW, Econoline body style changed in 1992 to the “new” style.

 

[NCG4]

Thank you for your response shade. I was so unsure of what would be under that sub floor and now knowing that they are just bolted through the floor using a plate underneath definitely makes it an easier job. Like u said unfortunately we are so far apart because those seats u have would be perfect especially with the integrated seat belts. But now I know what to look for. I'll have a better chance finding a later model donor to get seats like that from too. Again thank u for your help

 

[NCG4]

Between your last response and the one shade tree sent me I have a much better understanding now how to get this done. Thank u

 

[ShadetreeTim]

BTW, placement is key to reaching all the bolts under the van. With the fuel tank, driveshaft and exhaust shielding in the way I had to get creative. Pulling the originals out was the hardest as some of them I could barely reach and had to do it blind. I utilized a pair of Vice Grips under the van in those places. The further rearward you go the more open it is under there. From between the wheel wells back it is pretty easy. The Ford Buckets are nice with the integrated seats but they are pretty narrow between the armrest, although those do fold up and out of the way. My granddaughters car seat could be squeezed between the arm rest, just barely though. On the plus side, they have semi reclining backs.

But you could get seats from any brand van, as long as their mounting points are bolt through the floor. The Ford Rear Bench Seats have a quick release bracket that can be bolted through the floor. Makes taking the bench out easy. My buddy pulls his quick release brackets out every time he camps as he doesn't want his 2 year old to stumble over the bracket. Not very quick when you do that, but he likes the wide open floor.

 

[NCG4]

Thank u so much for all this info. I wish I would have posted on here a long time ago. I won't make that mistake again

 

[BrianW.]

Suggest putting future posts about interior build-out in the “home build” section for better results.

Have you checked out the Expedition Forum, too? Lots of good home build info over there as well.

 

[jpau00]

“I have read on many forums and websites that to secure kids car seats properly you can not or should not be secured to the side facing couch.”

It is illegal to have car seats on a side-facing couch. They are made only for front-facing seats. Having driven a 6 month old cross-country, If you are driving any long distances, I would suggest getting a bench seat instead of captain chairs. I have a 1987 camper van, which has two captain chairs up front and side-facing benches in back. Because there was only the one front-facing passenger seat, I was legally allowed to have him in front with me. I can say from the experience, I would not have survived if he was in back. Even though they’ll sleep a lot, small children and babies require a lot of attention while driving. With a bench seat, you or your wife can sit back there to attend to them while traveling. When they are older, you can trade out the bench for captain chairs.

 

[carringb]

Depending on how thick the flooring is, you might have to upsize the anchor bolts, so they can withstand the bending forces as well. Or, you can install a sleeve to take up the flooring thickness between the van's floor, and the bottom of the seat base.

FWIW - DOT doesn't "approve" anything. The FMVSS sets standards, and the OEMs and aftermarket converters establish compliance with those standards. For passenger seats, the requirement is 5,000 pounds per anchor for lap belts, or 3,000 pounds per shoulder belt anchor.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/tp-210-9a.pdf

Legally, you have no exposure unless you later tried to sell it having compliant seats, when you didn't test them. Of course, you want to do it right for you own family's safety....

Note that the RV industry is not required to meet any rear seating safety standard. So most aftermarket seating options are not any safer than a park bench.

I'd suggest some nice take out OEM seats, using the OEM base plates, and mount them with OEM or larger anchor bolts. You'll need to add a backer plates as well, if you aren't able to use the factory backer plate which will only exist where the OEM rear seats would have been.

Transit seats might be a good option, because they have integrated shoulder belts, and most positions have the LATCH system. Beware they come in varying widths, so you'll have to figure out which width will fit your layout and carseats the best.

 

[NCG4]

Funny u mentioned the transit seats. I started looking at those last night. Very easy to come by and like u said they already have seat belts. I'm pretty much set on getting those

 

[carringb]

One downside of the Transit seats, is they may be too high if you mount the rails over top of your floor. Maybe you can router out some channels into the wood floor, to inlay the mounting rails? Plus, then you'll still have a flat floor if you need to remove the seats to haul anything.

 

[NCG4]

That's my plan, to make the mounts flush with the finished floor. I have found numerous examples of people installing them this way. Installation is pretty straightforward also. I still have to do some measuring so hopefully they will work.

 

[Orv-SMB]

I don't think they made many E-250 passenger vans. The E-150 passenger van for that year was called the Club Wagon, and came with two removable bench seats. I suspect all the mounting hardware would bolt up if you wanted to go that route, but the subfloor would probably be an issue. It's been a long time and I can't remember exactly how they attached.

The sideways bench dilemma is exactly how I ended up with my SMB -- the previous owner had kids and needed something with a forward-facing bench, so they sold the SMB and bought a Vanagon Westfalia.

 

[Youngster]

Will the factory backer plate in a E-350 work with the Transit seat latch system(s), or will the Transit seat system need a custom backer plate in a E-350 in every case?

I may another seat behind the front passenger. I got some unexpected news the other night. :c6:

 

[86Scotty]

Will the factory backer plate in a E-350 work with the Transit seat latch system(s), or will the Transit seat system need a custom backer plate in a E-350 in every case?

I may another seat behind the front passenger. I got some unexpected news the other night. :c6:

Well, congrats on the forthcoming youngster, Youngster!

No, backer/mounting plate for E-series is completely different than Transit. In fact, there really isn't one single part or piece I can think of on those two vans that are interchangeable. Transit is a whole new vehicle.

Luckily, there are lots of Transit seat tracks and seats being taken out.

Keep in mind what CarringB said above. Transit seats are deceivingly taller than E-series seats. They go almost to the ceiling of a regular roof E-series.

:b5: