OBD-II Bi-directional Scanners/Tablets

[ScrapIron]

So i started shopping for an OBD-2 bi-directional scanner to reset codes in my 2015 jeep grand cherokee. I have to replace the lifters and rocker arms in it due to a design flaw in the 3.6 pentastar engines. This is the second time i have had to have this done. The first time was under warranty but this time its on me.

With that said, after replacing the parts it requires that you instruct the ECU to relearn the cam/crank phasing which is only an option on bi-directional scanners.

I started shopping online and im looking at spending $1000 maximum. I want to use it on my Jeep as well as my E-350 V-10 and eventually my folks BMW.

I know alot of guys use Forscan on the E-series vans, but it is for ford vehicles and wont work on my other vehicles such as the jeep.

The problem is there are so friggin many different manufacturers and models that it makes it nearly impossible to pick a good unit. I have read reviews, watched youtube reviews, etc... But you get both good and bad reviews on each and every manufacturer and model out there.

Then the next issue is the subscription and update costs after the first year of ownership. Many units they claim cease to function completely or are limited to basic functions if you fail to pay the update or subscription fee's which seem to be as much as the cost of a new machine.

Does anyone here have real life experience with these things and or any advice which model and manufacturer i should be looking at? Autel is out of the question for me, i think they are over priced and the update/subscription costs are absolutely rediculous.

I need to get this jeep done asap but dont want to start the job without having everything i need here and ready to use. The days of going to NAPA or autozone to have them reset codes or perform cam/crank relearn feature are long gone it appears. They simply refuse to reset any codes even though they are happy to pull codes for you.

Considering the entiire world is pushing sustainability and the entire green agenda, it certainly doesnt seem very environmentally sustainable to sell a scan tool for $800 new and then charge $560 dollars every year to update what will likely be an obsolete processor/machine as quickly as computer stuff changes.

At that price point it makes zero sense to update the machine when you can simply spend the additional $240 bucks and get the latest greatest processor/machine each year. Im guessing thats why im seeing so many of these scanners forsale on facebook marketplace, no one is paying to update them, they are just buying new ones.

 

[kbeefy]

You don't need to update to continue using it, it just will not support vehicles newer than it's latest update. My Autel hasn't been updated since 2019 and my Snap-on hasn't been updated since 2021. They have a nag popup at startup, but click no and it's gone.


You also do not need any subscriptions. If your talking about the ones I'm familiar with, thats only to download flash files from the manufacture for installing new ECU's and things that need to be programmed to the VIN. They are also available as a per-use or weekly rate so you don't have to buy an entire year for one use.



There was a newer brand that kinda took Autel's top spot in the cheap aftermarket scan tools a while back, I'll see if I can dig up the brand.




Isn't there something like ForScan for jeep/dodge/fiat?




Another option is to pick up a used snap-on on ebay/wherever. They are often sold with a fairly recent update.




Having said all that, it seems like you could do a forced relearn with much less.

 

[kbeefy]

Seems theres an App called JSCAN.



Someone on here https://www.wranglerforum.com/threa...uit-p0335-limp-biscuit.2467528/#post-35447250 stated that theres a cam/crank relearn available on it.

 

[kbeefy]

ScannerDanner on youtube likes the TopDon unit. He's a factory tech that teaches auto diag. He uses SnapOn extensively, so if he says the Topdon unit is worth it I'd try it.

$750 here, I haven't looked into or shopped around for it.
https://www.topdon.us/collections/professional-series/products/phoenix

 

[ScrapIron]

The problem with JSCAN is that it is only available for IOS or Android. I dont have a smart phone. I have a flip phone and a windows laptop, i also have an industrial grade tablet with windows which came off of a warehouse forklift about 12 years ago which would be great for JSCAN if it supported windows.


My understanding in regards to the scanning tablets like Autel is that once your 1 year free subscription runs out you either renew or the machine loses functionality. If youre just working on one or two cars its no biggy. But if youre an actual mechanic or one day you decide to help a friend with his vehicle troubles youre sol.

The reason as it was explained to me is that information for each vehicle has to be downloaded into the tablet and once that subscription expires you are no longer able to download information for other vehicles. Also the chrysler products require access to "autoauth" to bypass the gateway chrysler uses to prevent access to key features. My understanding is autoauth is an additional charge on top of the subscription fee.

How much of this is accurate i dont know because i dont own one yet. But it makes sense that a 32 gig tablet isnt going to have enough space to store all of the information required to trouble shoot thousands upon thousands of years, makes, and models of vehicles.

Can you help clarify? My understanding is that if you have already downloaded the files for a specific year, make and model, its stored on the tablet and once your sub expires you still have access to that data directly from the hard drive. But if you decide to work on the neighbors Isuzu pickup and you havent already downloaded that information you have to pay the subscription to access data again if you want to use the scanner on his truck.

Heres the annual subscription fee's for the Autel machines based on model...

 

[ScrapIron]

The Topdon looks like a nice tool. But here is their subscription policy...
Note that Topdon does not list their subscription prices on their site.

 

[kbeefy]

The scantool doesn't have 'diagnostic proceedures' on it. It reads pids and displays information.
The newer high end ones usually have online portals that can walk you thru the steps, but it's no different than what you read in the factory manual.

I can plug my scantool into anything I work on and do anything the scantool is capable of, even without any renewal or subscription. I have had issues with the newer Chrysler products (autoauth?) which varies depending upon the scantool.

Non of my scantools have ever been locked to the last vehicle used, and I have been useing them without any network connection for the past 3 years.

 

[ScrapIron]

Heres some information on "AUTOAUTH" ....

https://www.autel.com/c/www/USgateway.jhtml

It is also my understanding that if your machine does not have a current active subscription "AUTOAUTH" will not work and your $1000 dollar tablet will be useless on 2017 and newer chrysler products. Not sure if that includes the 2017 and newer jeeps or not.

 

[kbeefy]

The Topdon looks like a nice tool. But here is their subscription policy...
Note that Topdon does not list their subscription prices on their site.

Again, updates only update the tools available pids to the current year. If you bought a current scantool, it will work on vehicles MY 1996-2024 forever. If a newer vehicle uses the same computer architecture (as they usually do for 5 years or so) it will continue to work on newer vehicles until that's changed.

 

[ScrapIron]

Well i appreciate your input, however based on what i am reading i cant agree 100%. If a person is only working on cars older than 2017 you likely wont have any issues using your scanner and not having a subscription.

However if you want to work on vehicles 2017 and newer a subscription is not optional based on what im reading from the manufacturers themselves. Currently i believe its only the chrysler/fiat vehicles affected by this SGW firewall, however it states other manufacturers are adopting the same approach. Jeep unfortunately is a chrysler product.

This is from the AUTEL web site and it clearly states that even the most basic features of the tool are disabled without a subscription. You cant even clear basic DTC codes without an active subscription. The following are not my words, again this is direct from Autel's website and reads as follows ......

"A firewall of sorts, the SGW blocks unauthorized access and manipulation of vehicle networks and vital systems. FCA says the SGW was developed not to restrict access to diagnostic data but rather to restrict “the ability of non-registered and non-authenticated users to perform intrusive diagnostics such as bi-directional controls.” Beyond the prevention of bi-directional capability, which include calibrations, relearns and actuations, even the simple act of clearing a code is denied."

That said, in order to use the device on a 2017 and newer Chrysler product, a person must have both an active subscription as well as an "AUTOAUTH" subscription to bypass the SGW firewall and gain access to even the machines most basic functions. "AutoAuth" will not function without an active subscription on the machine.

 

[kbeefy]

Pretty good reason not to own anything with 'autoauth'

 

[ScrapIron]

I cant disagree with that.

Just for Sh&*s and giggles. One company gives two years subscription with their tablet/scanner. Lets say i pay $999 dollars for their scanner. I get two years subscription free with the purchase. That company charges $400 annually for a one year subscription after the initial two years, meaning that two year subscription has a value of $800.

That means when you purchase their scanner new you are getting two years free subscription with a monetary value of $800 dollars.
If you want to work on 2017 + chrysler/fiat vehicles its another $50 annually for the "autoauth" subscription.

Now its been two years and your subscription expires, does it make any sense whatsoever to renew a subscription for this two year old machine? Your choices are pay $450 for another year of subscriptions or throw it away and buy a new machine that comes with the latest processor, latest hard drive, etc.. latest vehicles data, and two more free years of subscription which is an $800 value?

Is it just me, or is this all just rediculous beyond reason? Again with all of the sustainability, green agenda, save the planet propoganda thats been going around for years i fail to see how this subscription nonsense does anything to curb the wasting of natural resources, global warming, or anything else.

If we are throwing away $999 dollar machines because the subscription price is beyond rediculous and buying a new $999 dollar machine to replace it, the resource consumption never ends or slows.

 

[kbeefy]

If you are using a $1000 tool then a $400/yr subscription does not make sense.

I was paying $900/yr for updates, but a replacement scan tool was $10000.

When I got out of the business I stopped buying updates. I have yet to work on a 2018+ Chrysler, and will never own one.

I know snapon was talking about a work-around for that 'firewall', but I never used it or saw it in action because they were mostly still under warranty and just went to the dealer for any issues. I'm pretty sure it was just another subscription their way as well.

 

[Big_ern_101]

You dont need AutoAuth for Chrysler.

https://www.amazon.com/FCA-12-Adapter-Universal-Automotive/dp/B09NDQ6RTF

Boom. Thank me later.

 

[kbeefy]

That's awesome. Now in 10 years I can work on 2018+ Chrysler.


I'll thank you now....

 

[ScrapIron]

Neat idea, but i wouldnt consider it a viable solution. Autoauth is only $50 a year. You will waste more than $50 in time having to tear the dash apart to locate those two connectors as shown in this video

Its the scanner subscription costs that are the problem. Every manufacturer states on their web site that an expired subscription will result in the scanner being limited in functionality and some even state that basic bi-directional features will be disabled until the subscription is renewed.

Now maybe im full of BS, but i can read. I havent purchased one yet due to these very concerns. I guess the only answer is for me to pick the machine i want and call the manufacturer and ask them directly what features are disabled if the subscription expires.

It does me no good to bypass the sgw firewall if my machine has no bi-directional coms due to expired machine subscription.

 

[Big_ern_101]

Autel got sued by Snap On, the Autel stuff was basically cloned Snap On Scanners. The nice part about the Chinese is once Autel gets slapped down, they just slap a "topdon" sticker over the Autel logo and send it back out to Amazon. Cat is decidedly out of the bag.

 

[kbeefy]

Well, I owned and used both a snapon and and a top of the line autel, then I demo-d the snap on atlas (flagship model) in 2020. At that time there were no similarities.

 

[Big_ern_101]

Huh.

https://glassbytes.com/2024/02/aute...rporation,of proprietary information and data.

 

[kbeefy]

Not knowing anything about the case and just reading that article, it looks like it was 'intellectual content, the online diag and procedures more than the actual hardware.

FWIW, the 'online diag' portion is like a kindergarten course for people that don't know how to use diag equipment, or what to look for.
Experienced techs skip all that and go straight to the data. Without training and practice, we will all wind up back in kindergarten.