Over My Head - A 06 E350 Build Thread

Yikes! It’s been a while since my last update, but so much has happened.

I’ve been working like crazy to get the van ready for our two week adventure. In the last couple of weeks I finished out our water system, cabinets, installed a Agile RIP kit with the exception of the rear springs, had the tires roadforce balanced, installed a 12k Badlands winch, installed a OVS 180 awning, swapped out diesel heaters and controllers… ya, it’s been a mad rush.

As of Friday we are rolling and the wife loves the van. Lots of pictures and updates to follow once this trip is complete. I’m excited to see how the beast does exploring Montana and Idaho.
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I’ll take some pictures of it deployed on this trip, but I’ll have to agree with everyone else. The OVS, even the 180 is too heavy. It can’t be setup without the legs.

I’m using a combination of mounts, including the drill in ones from Fieldvans, and the ones sold by a member here. The one over the door is the gutter mount, the two rear are the drill in.
 
Yes, re 180 awning - be VERY careful, that is going to stress the gutter and likely open up the edges of the putty allowing water to seep down.

I am guessing a two person deploy and retrieve
 
It’s about 11 lbs heavier than the Fiama. I’ve got my eyes on a different one coming out soon that will be around 40 lbs, and still a free standing 180 with walls. This one is a bit of a temporary solution to get us through this trip. But we’ll definitely be keeping a close eye on it.
 
There are legs you can use in windy conditions that detach from the awning and swing down, but they aren’t necessary in calm weather, similar to the OVS, just a bit lighter. OVS also has a smaller and lighter version of the 180 and 270.

The new one is a Free Spirt Recreation. They have the 270 version coming out this month, followed by the 180.
 
All options for awnings short of drill-thru mounts and proper backing plates tied into the OEM structure behind the sheetmetal seem to be asking for problems long term.

Such is the life with a poptop.
 
Yep, I’ve seen some interesting threads about that. 2 of my 3 mounts are drill through, and I’m going to modify them when I get home to increase the strength. They use a rubber isolated mount. It’s live rivnut kinda? Maybe it’s time to get a plasma cutter / cnc…
 
Ideally the awning mounts could be done similar to the way the seatbelt mounts are, where the thru-hole in the body shell is just for getting the bolt through and we don't rely on the skin of the vehicle for support.

A separate internal piece would have the threads and stiffness required to support the weight of the awning, and could use proper welded nuts instead of rivnuts.

This piece would be spot welded to both the internal support structure and external vehicle skin and oh-baby would you have a nice setup. But unless you are doing a repaint and have the skills, its not a very viable option.
 
Sportsmobile / Field Van use rubber bung nuts that expand against the 1/16th" thick sheet metal. They fail over time and vibration since the sheet metal cuts into the rubber.

The issue with our pop tops and the legless or cantilevered awnings is the leverage of the of the arms when extended. An awning less than 6 ft projection is pretty much useless. A 6ft lever unsupported arm will stress the gutter and your mount a lot.
 
Sportsmobile / Field Van use rubber bung nuts that expand against the 1/16th" thick sheet metal. They fail over time and vibration since the sheet metal cuts into the rubber.

The issue with our pop tops and the legless or cantilevered awnings is the leverage of the of the arms when extended. An awning less than 6 ft projection is pretty much useless. A 6ft lever unsupported arm will stress the gutter and your mount a lot.

Ah, that makes sense! I may change to the one everyone uses, or go with the new lighter weight 180 awning. I'd also like to drill all the way through and reinforce the mounts. We'll see. To be honest, I used the awning a lot less than I expected! In the Tacoma we used it almost every night while camping because that was our living space. Now with the van, it's not needed.
 
Good News! The van survived over 6000 miles in two weeks, and well over 1000 miles of trail! It was amazing.

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The good and bad:
The van did great! The 6.0l ran decently cool the whole trip. From 80 mph through North Dakota and Montana, to slow crawling up trails at 5mph and high elevation it never got above 224 degrees. Typically the Oil temp stayed 10-15 degrees lower than Coolant temp. On average it stayed under 214 degrees, and when the fans kicked on it rapidly dropped back to around 194.

The new Agile suspension is ok. I'm less impressed than I had hoped. It's fine on the highway, but it was fine on the highway before the change. My main concern is offroad. If you hit a bump with both tires, takes it easily. If you hit a bump with a little speed on one tire it's decent. If you hit a pothole on the trail with just one tire and slow speeds, the entire van wobbles like a drunken sailor. It's enough to give you whiplash. It dips, then rebounds super hard. It feels like the low speed dampening is too soft, and the rebound it too stiff. In my truck I can adjust High speed dampening, low speed dampening, and rebound separately, and I really wish I could do the same on these fox shocks. I may need to find someone who can revalve these, or find another solution down the road.

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The interior I built out worked well. We used maybe half of the 16 gallons of water in our tank, and the Dometic faucet was sufficient if a little slow to fill a pot.

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We eventually got a pretty good solution to make the bed (top and bottom) more comfortable. We used a 1 inch thick self inflating Kamp-Rite mat on top of the mattress, then a 2 inch memory foam mattress on that. Each side of the double mat can be inflated separately so I could have it more firm than my wife. We were able to keep a full set of sheets on the mattresses and move the mat and topper to the bunkhouse when we slept above, and leave it on the folded down couch when we were traveling.

The ARB Twin compressor is perfect for airing the tires back up to the 60/80 after taking them down on the trail. Right now it's mounted in an apache (Harbor Freight) case, but I'll get it mounted under the van soon.

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The diesel heater was an absolute game changer! I ran a Chinese diesel heater with a different controller called the Afterburner. With the upgraded controller I can manage the heater from my phone via a nice web interface, adjust the heater to different modes, and even tweak how it runs at different altitudes. In the next couple of weeks I'll be installing the silent pump mod and we'll be golden. We used the heater almost every night. I ran it in a linear hertz mode, at around 1.2 hertz. Basically it pumps fuel at a rate of 1 squirt of fuel every 1.2 seconds. It can go as low as 1 hertz and up to around 4.5 I think. It also has a mode to maintain a specific temp, and has an external temp sensor so it's not affected by the electronics in the thermostat heating up. I've been using the afterburner controller for years, but now that it's hard mounted, it's even better. Once I get the silent pump installed, it will be about perfect.

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The swivel seat for the passenger side is great while parked, but has some wiggle that makes hitting bumps offroad a little more violent in the passenger seat that you don't notice from the drivers seat. I need to find a solution for that before long.

Some nights we slept in upstairs area, and other nights we were too lazy to move the bedding and just slept on the downstairs bed. I love that I can pull into a reset area, throw the window covers on, and sleep down below in no time. In the truck I was never able to get good sleep while stealth camping.

As I edit pictures I'll work on creating a bit of a trip report, but I'll tease you with these:

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Also, if you ever have a chance to stay in an old fire lookout tower, don't let the fire die at 2:30am.. It takes a while to heat back up. :n5:

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Fox shocks are pretty easy to revalve.

I've been to some lookout towers in Oregon and heard you can reserve them in the off season. I've never done it but it sounds cool.

I wonder if your swaybar is causing some of your slow speed issues... do you still have a swaybar? If so, you can disconnect one end and see if it changes anything.
 
Your impression of Agile's shock valving is similar to mine. When I first had them done (V4? V5?), I was overjoyed with how much better they worked than the previous valving. Then I started really focusing on the little nuances that could use improvement. After I had decided what traits I wanted to change, I opened them up myself and revalved them. Without giving away their trade secrets, I'll say they had an interesting double flutter (3 stage) compression stack that was lacking in the low speed department, but had a drastic transition from low speed to high speed which meant it could bottom out fairly easily on deep rollers/whoops/etc but almost feel like it hydro-locked (it didn't, but the transition was more than obvious) on sharp high speed hits. The rebound stack is VERY stiff for only a 2" shock and while that makes these heavy beasts hold a turn better than they should, it couldn't drop out fast enough to cope with potholes or manhole covers without stuttering around.

I made a 2 stage compression stack that was quite a bit firmer on the low speed side as well as a bit of an unconventional setup using thinner shims after the crossover (the high speed side) but I did not alter reboud at that time. It worked very well.

That was 2 years or so ago so I've had plenty of time/miles/terrain to nitpick the valving some more. I've been staring at my notes and ordered a bunch of shims to change things up again. I'm going to go stiffer than I think I need this time and try to get even more low speed and a bit more high speed compression to handle better while driving faster than a van should through the dunes and desert... hopefully without giving up too much around town ride comfort. Definitely won't be as well suited for the masses as my current setup. I will be taking a few shims out of Agile's rebound stack this time too.

The reality is that a 2" body shock isn't really adequate for a vehicle this heavy when used for higher speed or extended periods offroad. I've got a feeling my next valving setup is going to get the shocks too hot to touch after a spirited run, but I guess I'll live with the trade offs to ensure I've got something on reserve for those "gotcha" moments. A 2.5" would be an improvement to be sure, but I wouldn't call a 3" shock too big for the vehicle's weight, but it's not supposed to be an offroad race car. A short hydraulic bumpstop along with the 2" shock would be able to save your hide once in awhile but won't help with the heat during extended runs. The hydro bumps would be cheaper than switching to a bigger shock too.

Just some food for thought.
 
Fox shocks are pretty easy to revalve.

I've been to some lookout towers in Oregon and heard you can reserve them in the off season. I've never done it but it sounds cool.

I wonder if your swaybar is causing some of your slow speed issues... do you still have a swaybar? If so, you can disconnect one end and see if it changes anything.

A good thought. My swaybar is still in place, lowered with the Agile kit, and with new bushings.

You should do it! It’s an absolute blast!
 
Your impression of Agile's shock valving is similar to mine. When I first had them done (V4? V5?), I was overjoyed with how much better they worked than the previous valving. Then I started really focusing on the little nuances that could use improvement. After I had decided what traits I wanted to change, I opened them up myself and revalved them. Without giving away their trade secrets, I'll say they had an interesting double flutter (3 stage) compression stack that was lacking in the low speed department, but had a drastic transition from low speed to high speed which meant it could bottom out fairly easily on deep rollers/whoops/etc but almost feel like it hydro-locked (it didn't, but the transition was more than obvious) on sharp high speed hits. The rebound stack is VERY stiff for only a 2" shock and while that makes these heavy beasts hold a turn better than they should, it couldn't drop out fast enough to cope with potholes or manhole covers without stuttering around.

I made a 2 stage compression stack that was quite a bit firmer on the low speed side as well as a bit of an unconventional setup using thinner shims after the crossover (the high speed side) but I did not alter reboud at that time. It worked very well.

That was 2 years or so ago so I've had plenty of time/miles/terrain to nitpick the valving some more. I've been staring at my notes and ordered a bunch of shims to change things up again. I'm going to go stiffer than I think I need this time and try to get even more low speed and a bit more high speed compression to handle better while driving faster than a van should through the dunes and desert... hopefully without giving up too much around town ride comfort. Definitely won't be as well suited for the masses as my current setup. I will be taking a few shims out of Agile's rebound stack this time too.

The reality is that a 2" body shock isn't really adequate for a vehicle this heavy when used for higher speed or extended periods offroad. I've got a feeling my next valving setup is going to get the shocks too hot to touch after a spirited run, but I guess I'll live with the trade offs to ensure I've got something on reserve for those "gotcha" moments. A 2.5" would be an improvement to be sure, but I wouldn't call a 3" shock too big for the vehicle's weight, but it's not supposed to be an offroad race car. A short hydraulic bumpstop along with the 2" shock would be able to save your hide once in awhile but won't help with the heat during extended runs. The hydro bumps would be cheaper than switching to a bigger shock too.

Just some food for thought.

I’m so glad to hear someone else has a similar experience after all of the praise I’ve seen for the fox shocks. I really wanted to go with something adjustable, but no one had what I was looking for. I also wanted external reservoirs but that wasn’t an option either. I completely agree that 2 inch is way too small, but every company I talked to said they don’t have anything valved for the weight.

I’m guessing you have no interest in doing some custom valving like what you currently have in place?
 
I hope my post didn't come off as the Agile setup being bad, because it was actually pretty decent. I'm just super picky about my suspension on all my vehicles and have been rebuilding/revalving my own motorcycle and truck shocks for 20 years and was *hoping* that Agile's extensive firsthand testing/tuning on E-series would save me the time of dialing things in myself (it can take a couple years for me to finally settle on a setup.) While it may not have been perfect *for me* it at least got me closer and gave me something to build off of. I've always been a Fox guy when it came to offroad/truck shocks so at least I was familiar with what I was up against and always have the option to make valving changes.

Sorry, I'm too slow to work on other people's stuff anymore. I'd be happy to share my current shim stacks with you if you'd like, just keep in mind that everyone's idea of a good setup is subjective and comes down to personal taste. I'd really encourage you to do it yourself. After you've done it once, it can become addicting as you'll always be noting areas with room for improvement, making changes, and testing again. It's quite rewarding when you get it right, and not that big of a deal if you get it wrong as you can change it yourself for almost no cost (when making back to back changes, there's no need to replace seals/oil each time, I've done that on my motorcycles a few times) vs paying $100+ (each) for a shop to do it everytime and having to trust that their tuner truly understands what you're after AND understands the changes necessary to get there.
 
I hope my post didn't come off as the Agile setup being bad, because it was actually pretty decent. I'm just super picky about my suspension on all my vehicles and have been rebuilding/revalving my own motorcycle and truck shocks for 20 years and was *hoping* that Agile's extensive firsthand testing/tuning on E-series would save me the time of dialing things in myself (it can take a couple years for me to finally settle on a setup.) While it may not have been perfect *for me* it at least got me closer and gave me something to build off of. I've always been a Fox guy when it came to offroad/truck shocks so at least I was familiar with what I was up against and always have the option to make valving changes.

Sorry, I'm too slow to work on other people's stuff anymore. I'd be happy to share my current shim stacks with you if you'd like, just keep in mind that everyone's idea of a good setup is subjective and comes down to personal taste. I'd really encourage you to do it yourself. After you've done it once, it can become addicting as you'll always be noting areas with room for improvement, making changes, and testing again. It's quite rewarding when you get it right, and not that big of a deal if you get it wrong as you can change it yourself for almost no cost (when making back to back changes, there's no need to replace seals/oil each time, I've done that on my motorcycles a few times) vs paying $100+ (each) for a shop to do it everytime and having to trust that their tuner truly understands what you're after AND understands the changes necessary to get there.

I am always eager to learn, so I’d love any info on your shim stacks and modifications. I think it would be a fun thing to know how to do as well.

I’ve had a few different suspension setups in my Tacoma over the years as I changed out different campers, built different setups and changed the weight. The biggest game changer to me was when I got the Dobinsons RMM 3 way adjustable suspension. Now I can tune it for me, and for the environment. That the only reason I can tell (in a novice way) what I’m unhappy about in the Agile setup. Before I couldn’t have told you the different between the low speed and high speed compression and how the rebound dampening affects the ride. I think having the adjustability has made me more picky.

But you’re right, the agile isn’t bad, it’s just not as good as I expected with all of the praise I’ve seen heaped on them, and I guess I’m now a little picky.
 
Apparently I'm too dumb to send a private message on this forum. If you want to send me one with a phone number, I can send some pictures with some of my notes.
 

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