PH Top lube--how do you do it?
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dick-SMB
Advanced Member
+1, been wondering this myself.
SMB suggests silicon spray lube.
Where do you spray?
I tried spraying the scissors cross area and that did nothing. The ends of the scissors which is where most of the horrible sound is coming from are under the flat covers at the front and back of the PH top area. I stuck my finger in that area and there is a very thick white grease that doesn't smell. I have no idea how to add more grease up there. Kind of amazed that no one else has this issue! It has always been jerky and not smooth but we were told by SMB that there are two actuators and they are not 100% synched and that was to be expected. The sound is like it is totallydry and is definitely not good or "expected". Anyone?
I tried spraying the scissors cross area and that did nothing. The ends of the scissors which is where most of the horrible sound is coming from are under the flat covers at the front and back of the PH top area. I stuck my finger in that area and there is a very thick white grease that doesn't smell. I have no idea how to add more grease up there. Kind of amazed that no one else has this issue! It has always been jerky and not smooth but we were told by SMB that there are two actuators and they are not 100% synched and that was to be expected. The sound is like it is totallydry and is definitely not good or "expected". Anyone?
Does it make noise when it's fully up and you physically move the top around? Mine jerks a bit while moving but no loud noise while in motion. Maybe this post will give you some ideas
http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/forums/f12/penthouse-maintenance-and-other-issue-7178.html
http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/forums/f12/penthouse-maintenance-and-other-issue-7178.html
No noise when fully up
The noise and jerking is when raising and lowering and it is getting progressively worse over time. Mine does not have the center silversupport like the one in the thread you linked. It is a 2015 build. I think the two actuators were not balanced and one is lowering before the other, they are just off enough that there is binding and jerking. I don't think any amount of silicone spray is going to fix one side coming down quicker than the other. Sounds like we are going to SMB to get this fixed...very frustrating all around, pretty much makes it un-usable.
The noise and jerking is when raising and lowering and it is getting progressively worse over time. Mine does not have the center silversupport like the one in the thread you linked. It is a 2015 build. I think the two actuators were not balanced and one is lowering before the other, they are just off enough that there is binding and jerking. I don't think any amount of silicone spray is going to fix one side coming down quicker than the other. Sounds like we are going to SMB to get this fixed...very frustrating all around, pretty much makes it un-usable.
Yeah I haven't looked closely at a new Sprinter PH lift. I think a call to SMB might be in order. It would be nice that you post back with how they fix it or even give you advise on how to get things to working again.
Advice so far...
Latest:
There is no adjustment that can be made. Everything is bolted down solid.
What I recommend is to pull back the fabric covering the mechanism and inspect it while someone lifts and lowers it. Let me know if you notice anything loose or broken.
Latest request for help:
The top on our '15 SMB is now operating more 'jerky', while raising up and down. It is obvious just looking at the top, from either inside or outside, that the passenger side comes down before the driver side, and the driver side goes up before the passenger side. Also, the scissors mechanism is catching/binding, both going up and down, and making some associated noises.
It seems that adjusting the starting position of one side of the scissors would make the movement much smoother. Do you have some instructions that would help me with this adjustment? Also, what lubrication do you recommend? I am sure you want to see the van if possible, but that does involve a 400 mile round trip drive. If you can give any guidance at all, I am a mech/aero engineer and hopefully I should be able to adjust the mechanism without driving to your facility.
Advise from Sep 15:
From reading your description, it sounds like everything is fine. The electric actuators are not in sync with each other. In most cases one is slower than the other.
As long as there is no evident binding or loud popping noises you should be ok.
Of course the only way to be 100% sure would be to have me look at it. let me know if stopping by is possible and I would be more than happy to inspect your top.
Original Message about the issue (this was before the horrible noise was the norm)
Since we got our SMB Sprinter on April 28, 2015 the penthouse has come down unevenly. I did some measurements today parked on a flat surface with nothing on the roof. At the top position, the two sides of the PH are almost even (within 1/2", measuring vertically from top of roof to bottom on PH side). I took several measurements while moving the top up, down, repeat, etc, and found that the driver's side of the PH is about 1.5" - 2.5" lower than the passenger's side as it nears the roof top. This measurement is taken vertically from the top of the roof to the bottom side of the PH. Also, if I don't manually move the top over an inch or so, the top will come down off to one side of the van, and usually be up on a ridge on the roof on one side only.
It seems to me that the top mechanism could be adjusted so that the two sides of the PH come down evenly, and touch the roof at about the same time. However, since the roof sits evenly (horizontally) now when it is all the way up, I wonder if any adjustment might also adversely affect the PH top in the up position?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Latest:
There is no adjustment that can be made. Everything is bolted down solid.
What I recommend is to pull back the fabric covering the mechanism and inspect it while someone lifts and lowers it. Let me know if you notice anything loose or broken.
Latest request for help:
The top on our '15 SMB is now operating more 'jerky', while raising up and down. It is obvious just looking at the top, from either inside or outside, that the passenger side comes down before the driver side, and the driver side goes up before the passenger side. Also, the scissors mechanism is catching/binding, both going up and down, and making some associated noises.
It seems that adjusting the starting position of one side of the scissors would make the movement much smoother. Do you have some instructions that would help me with this adjustment? Also, what lubrication do you recommend? I am sure you want to see the van if possible, but that does involve a 400 mile round trip drive. If you can give any guidance at all, I am a mech/aero engineer and hopefully I should be able to adjust the mechanism without driving to your facility.
Advise from Sep 15:
From reading your description, it sounds like everything is fine. The electric actuators are not in sync with each other. In most cases one is slower than the other.
As long as there is no evident binding or loud popping noises you should be ok.
Of course the only way to be 100% sure would be to have me look at it. let me know if stopping by is possible and I would be more than happy to inspect your top.
Original Message about the issue (this was before the horrible noise was the norm)
Since we got our SMB Sprinter on April 28, 2015 the penthouse has come down unevenly. I did some measurements today parked on a flat surface with nothing on the roof. At the top position, the two sides of the PH are almost even (within 1/2", measuring vertically from top of roof to bottom on PH side). I took several measurements while moving the top up, down, repeat, etc, and found that the driver's side of the PH is about 1.5" - 2.5" lower than the passenger's side as it nears the roof top. This measurement is taken vertically from the top of the roof to the bottom side of the PH. Also, if I don't manually move the top over an inch or so, the top will come down off to one side of the van, and usually be up on a ridge on the roof on one side only.
It seems to me that the top mechanism could be adjusted so that the two sides of the PH come down evenly, and touch the roof at about the same time. However, since the roof sits evenly (horizontally) now when it is all the way up, I wonder if any adjustment might also adversely affect the PH top in the up position?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Last edited:
When we picked up Sporty at SMB North, and getting the tour by Chad our builder and was going over the penthouse, as I was going to lower the top half way then raise it up, Jim the MGR was listening and adding his two cents to what Chad was missing (you know, 35 years in the SMB biz, you listen to the guy) and specifically said that when you raise or lower the top, do it COMPLETELY EVERY time...he said that if not, the sides will get out of sync and then you'll have to raise and lower it 'completely' 5+ times to get it re-synced...he said some people like to raise it a bit then lower it to drive again, but he made it sound as if there is just that point of no return that will throw it off, so why chance it. Jim is about the best person to talk SMB to that isn't on this forum (lol)...so, it sounds tedious, but worth a try? Up and down completely five or so times until it evens out? And add the grease/silicone too...keep us posted...or BETTER yet, call Jim in Indiana (SMB North) and ask...just a suggestion...but still, keep us posted!!
BeeDub-ClassB
Senior Member
@ctb, was that advice for a manual or electric PH?
Tried it
Raised and lowered about 7-8 full cycles and that isn't helping anything. The thing is that raising and/or lowering in one cycle all at once is hard to do--you have to constantly adjust the fabric on the top so it doesn't get pinched by the scissors and make sure the bed seats on the rails, etc. I think we isolated the main problem to the back scissors--it is not fixed at the base like the front end and travels the length of the panel on the roof. It feels very rough and jerky as it raises and lowers. To access it you have to get the panel holding the lights and covering the end of the tube off and maybe re-grease. That is the part that had the thick white non smelling grease that I could just access from the side with my finger. If this is something that requires regular maintenance it should have been made more clear. Actually, nothing from SMB has been clear IMO. The owners manual is a joke for the systems and there is nothing about regular maintenance for stuff like this. Might end up driving the 250 miles to SMB after all. Thanks for all the great ideas though.
Raised and lowered about 7-8 full cycles and that isn't helping anything. The thing is that raising and/or lowering in one cycle all at once is hard to do--you have to constantly adjust the fabric on the top so it doesn't get pinched by the scissors and make sure the bed seats on the rails, etc. I think we isolated the main problem to the back scissors--it is not fixed at the base like the front end and travels the length of the panel on the roof. It feels very rough and jerky as it raises and lowers. To access it you have to get the panel holding the lights and covering the end of the tube off and maybe re-grease. That is the part that had the thick white non smelling grease that I could just access from the side with my finger. If this is something that requires regular maintenance it should have been made more clear. Actually, nothing from SMB has been clear IMO. The owners manual is a joke for the systems and there is nothing about regular maintenance for stuff like this. Might end up driving the 250 miles to SMB after all. Thanks for all the great ideas though.
Last edited:
Picture of panel
This is the area that is the problem--it jerks, vibrates, and is super noisy. The cylinder slides along this back grey panel but it is not at all smooth. The front cylinder is fixed on the front panel but this back one slides, or is supposed to slide but it is more of a jerky movement than at all smooth.
This is the area that is the problem--it jerks, vibrates, and is super noisy. The cylinder slides along this back grey panel but it is not at all smooth. The front cylinder is fixed on the front panel but this back one slides, or is supposed to slide but it is more of a jerky movement than at all smooth.
Attachments
BroncoHauler-SMB
Senior Member
Maybe talk to SMB and offer to send them a video of the problem area so they can see it before you have to take it to them?
Herb
Herb
Electric top...but reading a later post here sounds like it might not be fixed like that OR, I misunderstood Jim, but I am pretty sure that is how he put it...with the fabric getting caught in the screws, you might have a big wad of greasy fabric that not only dried up the initial grease/lube, but cleaned the screwdrives-screws and maybe (again) those ads are causing trouble too...I am just logging in so I will have to go back and read that a little closer...
X-2 and don't rule out going back to SMB. 400 miles is a short trip IMO.
How about the bolts holding that part on (under the grey part) that connect to the top itself...if you ever climbed on top (roof/penthouse) and saw the silver dollar size washers with the vinyl bolt protectors on the front and back?... maybe one snapped? Does the roof separate a little from that grey cover? That is all I can think of...at least only 250 miles though...thats up early good breakfast, lunch there, supper and drive 1/2 way home and sleep!? Good luck!!
Bolts are ok on top
Found this gem while searching for problem areas. Think it was an install deal as it is nowhere near where the jerking/noise is happening. There were no metal shavings anywhere in the tracks for the coils which looked greased well on both ends. Still waiting on a call/email from SMB. Thanks for all the great ideas and tips though.
Found this gem while searching for problem areas. Think it was an install deal as it is nowhere near where the jerking/noise is happening. There were no metal shavings anywhere in the tracks for the coils which looked greased well on both ends. Still waiting on a call/email from SMB. Thanks for all the great ideas and tips though.
Attachments
Advise from SMB
From SMB after 3 emails:
"I just watched the video. It sounds like the upholstered cover on top is dry. Spray some dry silicone as much as you can and see if that does the trick. Other than that I don’t think there is a problem to where the top mechanism is breaking. Let me know how it goes."
We spray lubed every joint in the mechanism and tray area that houses the spring coils after removing the fabric cover on the sides. This did absolutely nothing. We did find that one side of the coil in back has no links attached and the other has 2 links. The top has always been lop-sided, one side comes down faster than the other and it never seats correctly on the van--we have to get the ladder, climb up to the top and move it until it seats properly on the van. Does anyone else have a different number of links on each side of their PH top. All of these issues we have been told by SMB that this is "normal" It is NOT normal to have this jerky noisy lopsided PH.
If anyone heard or saw the videos we have sent with the associated noise, it is very apparent that it is more than just being "dry". There is a lot of thick white grease still on all the parts and the spray lube did nothing.
This $106K van is basically un-usable and SMB couldn't care less IMO.
From SMB after 3 emails:
"I just watched the video. It sounds like the upholstered cover on top is dry. Spray some dry silicone as much as you can and see if that does the trick. Other than that I don’t think there is a problem to where the top mechanism is breaking. Let me know how it goes."
We spray lubed every joint in the mechanism and tray area that houses the spring coils after removing the fabric cover on the sides. This did absolutely nothing. We did find that one side of the coil in back has no links attached and the other has 2 links. The top has always been lop-sided, one side comes down faster than the other and it never seats correctly on the van--we have to get the ladder, climb up to the top and move it until it seats properly on the van. Does anyone else have a different number of links on each side of their PH top. All of these issues we have been told by SMB that this is "normal" It is NOT normal to have this jerky noisy lopsided PH.
If anyone heard or saw the videos we have sent with the associated noise, it is very apparent that it is more than just being "dry". There is a lot of thick white grease still on all the parts and the spray lube did nothing.
This $106K van is basically un-usable and SMB couldn't care less IMO.
Last edited:
BroncoHauler-SMB
Senior Member
Sounds like a 250 mile drive would be well worth it.
rallypanam
Senior Member
This is definitely not normal. Take some pictures inside and out with the top up and down, we may be able to see something. Or head to Fresno.
I wouldn't be worried about a squeak, all the silicon lube in the world ain't gonna straighten the top!
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