Possible CO in coolant

[SierraHawk]

I have had this 2004 E350 RB 4X4 5.4 Sportsmobile since it was new and have put 354,000 miles on it. I have driven it on many roads that are no more than a track from a Model "T" truck driving into a remote mining camp but it has performed exceptionally well on and off road. We have also been towing a restored 1976 Airstream (8000#) for the past 130,000 miles. Wear and tear and maintenance cost about $8000+ a year. The repairs have not involved the engine or trans.

About 6 years ago, I've had to top off the coolant reservoir every 2 to 3 weeks with a quart of coolant. I've put dye into the coolant several times, installed a new reservoir twice in the past 5 years, used several different coolant reservoir caps and taken it into a shop to have them look for leaks. The only place that the dye shows up is under the reservoir where it drips onto the wheel well and then onto the ground.

Last week, I asked the shop I have been using for over10 years to check the reservoir for carbon monoxide. They reported back to me that it was positive for CO. There is no coolant in the oil but they recommended that I install a Jasper remanufactured engine. The cost ?: about $10,000.

About half the time we are out, we are in remote and very remote areas where there are no resources closer than 100+ miles. I seldom have to call for a tow but last year the rear pinion began to cannibalize the ring gear. We were in so deep that there was no cell service. After two days of camping, another traveler headed out said he would call a towing company for me. A Utah deputy stopped by the next day. He had no radio service. He had to drive 30 miles away just to get a signal from their repeater. The closest tow truck was 3 hours away. That tow cost over $1200. Insurance covered the cost but another $1000 towing charge and I suspect my policy will be cancelled.

We are in Las Vegas and plan to drive north in March. The engine has not shown any signs of a leaking head gasket or cracked head or block and been running exceptionally well. No misfires, signs of coolant dripping from the engine or smell of coolant in the exhaust but I don't want to have the engine fail in Gerlach, NV during a snowstorm. If we have the engine replaced, I will be out $10,000 but shouldn't have to worry about a "lockup" (coolant in one cylinder) for another 300,000 miles.

I'm lucky that the engine has run great during the past 20 years but with over 354,000 miles on it, I don't know how many more miles the engine will last.

Question is: Should I take the chance and continue driving the van as is or have a remanufactured Jasper engine installed?

Michael

 

[deserteagle56]

Last week, I asked the shop I have been using for over10 years to check the reservoir for CO. They reported back to me that it was positive for CO. There is no coolant in the oil but they recommended that I install a Jasper remanufactured engine. The cost ?: about $10,000.
Michael

For those of us who are just plain ignorant....what is "CO"?????

And yes, after 354,000 miles I'd say it is time for a new engine. Or rebuild the one you have. With that many miles, its only a matter of time.

 

[SierraHawk]

"CO" is carbon monoxide. I've corrected it.

 

[1der]

Man, hear you on the mileage concern but .....

Compression test?
Scope the cylinders?
Oil analysis?
Exhaust analysis for coolant? (Is that even a thing?)

These would be at least three/ four inputs for a decision.
If there is excellent info back on the first three then I would be inclined to continue as is but step up my oil analysis to every other or every oil change interval to get a trend and early warning.

If coolant is leaking into one or more of the cylinders, then those cylinders should have a different look (usually cleaner) than the others.

If all those come back with no indication of weakness/ failure, I would give a hard look to the heater coolant circulation components.

 

[SierraHawk]

The chief mechanic said the "Exhaust smells like coolant." I had never heard that before but I am an amateur.

 

[carringb]

You have 3 indicators that you have a head gasket leak, so it’s probably time to start planning for a reman.

Since you aren’t burning coolant (I presume… if you mechanic could smell the exhaust in the coolant, he probably can smell coolant in exhaust) it’s probably not critical right now, but I’d probably avoid towing any heavy trailer in hot weather. Also, to avoid coolant intrusion into the cylinders, avoid shutting the van off immediately after high-load scenarios. Let it idle until the coolant comes down 190-ish before shutting it off, and use the heater to aid that cool down.

FWIW - when i did mine at 460,000 (burned an exhaust valve due to low fuel pressure), the Ford reman was cheaper than jasper and had a better warranty (unlimited miles). But I don’t know if that’s the case anymore, since at some point, they’ll run low new blocks.

 

[1der]

Brian - one thing that struck me in the initial post is this has been going on for 6 years and I am guessing 80,000 miles. Is it getting worse, more frequent? If not, then is a failure scenario immediate or progressive? And if establishing a baseline today and monitoring oil, coolant usage,, etc., is it better to continue as is until degradation is observed vs introducing the unknowns around a "new" engine.

That being said, if replacing the engine, part of me would look at the viability of swapping to a V10.

Also, SierraHawk , I would love to know your maintenance routine to have essentially 354k good running miles! What oil do you use?

 

[SierraHawk]

Thanks to everyone who has commented. Ray, You are describing the problem as I see it. Another variable is, I am 76. Up until 10 years ago, I was not concerned about being stranded for a week or more in a remote area. I could fix most of the problems with the peripherals myself but I do not have the same physical strength as I did 15 years ago.

I've looked at the V10 and am not sure it has enough additional HP to justify the expense. The V8 has been a very good engine. I have pulled the trailer from Florida to Alaska and almost every point in between for the past 18 years and the van seldom bogs down. If the road is too steep for High, I can shift into Low and be on my way.

The V8 was designed to run without coolant. I was in Las Vegas when the temp was over 100 and I was driving in heavy traffic. I was almost out of town when I smelled coolant. My first thought was: "Poor bastard. It is going to be a bad day for him to be on foot." Then I realized that it was my van. I was able to drive another mile to a place where I could park under an overpass. AAA showed up with a can of water and we were back on the road in about 40 minutes.

I use the Motorcraft 5-20W. Under normal conditions, the engine does not burn more than a pint between oil changes. When towing long distances, I may use a quart every 2000 to 3000 miles. I've tried several other brands of oil but the engine burns a quart in about 1500 miles even when I am not towing.

M

 

[86Scotty]

I would do an oil analysis. Then decide.

 

[larrie-SMB]

Something else to check; The area near the intake manifold on our 5.4 started leaking. There would be a small puddle of coolant or dampness under the van. From what I understand from our mechanic this is a know issue and reasonably easy to fix.

 

[arctictraveller]

Another thought: A buddy called me all depressed that he had coolant coming out of his exhaust, clearly a blown head gasket. I showed up at his place with a can of head gasket sealant. He was ready to have it towed to a junkyard, so there was nothing to loose. Following the directions, we drained the coolant, refilled with water, added the magic overhaul stuff in a can and let it run and get hot. Amazingly, it worked! He continued to drive it daily for a couple months with no further coolant loss before trading it in for a truck. I kept telling him it was a very temporary repair but he couldnt afford to replace it right away so he continued to drive it. Would i use it in your case with just the suspicion of a leak? **** no! But, I might buy some of the stuff and carry it with me until I made a decision on how to permanently solve the issue. Add a minimum, it might give you a little bit of peace of mind when you’re in the back country, knowing that if it does finally let loose, do you have a chance of self rescue. I also wonder if your mechanic used an actual head gasket leak detection kit, or just his nose? Something like this one: https://www.amazon.com/RELD-Gasket-...-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

[NCMODELA]

I just replaced my v10. Went with TRISTAR rebuilt motors out of Wisconsin. It has a 4 yr unlimited mile warranty and a single no fault replacement. Meaning if it blows up for any reason they will send a replacement no questions asked. It was about $1500 cheaper than a Jasper. Just food for thought.

 

[VanMiller]

Thanks to everyone who has commented. Ray, You are describing the problem as I see it. Another variable is, I am 76. Up until 10 years ago, I was not concerned about being stranded for a week or more in a remote area. I could fix most of the problems with the peripherals myself but I do not have the same physical strength as I did 15 years ago

Have ya considered selling the vehicle "as is" and buying something new?

At 76 years old, why risk driving something with so many miles, you’re bound to have something else break, even after the engine is replaced; just seems like a lot of grief for someone your age to have to deal with, especially in some of the more remote areas we often find ourselves camping at.

 

[MOTA]

Michael

If you have a heat exchanger to heat the water, you could have a faulty exchanger that is transferring coolant into your water system (serious consequences). This would allow the coolant reservoir to depleat.

 

[SierraHawk]

Michael

If you have a heat exchanger to heat the water, you could have a faulty exchanger that is transferring coolant into your water system (serious consequences). This would allow the coolant reservoir to depleat.

The coolant reservoirs for the 5.4 have a habit of developing very small cracks that can run almost the full length of the reservoir. I've replaced the reservoir twice but only after using fluorescein dye. When under normal operating pressures, the coolant is pushed through the hair line cracks that are only visible when the dye stains them. I also changed the reservoir caps even though they were not leaking when under normal pressure. Last time I replaced the reservoir, I had hoped that the leaking would stop. It did not.

 

[kbeefy]

I wouldn't rely on the rather vague diagnosis you have received so far, unless there is more info you haven't disclosed. The CO coolant test can be done a few different ways, and some are suspect. If they used a 4 or 5 gas analyzer and can repeat the test, including whatever daily calibration those machines require to confirm, I might be more confident in the diag.

A quart of coolant every couple weeks is also rather vague. Is that a quart every 100 miles, or a quart every 1000 miles?

As mentioned previously, these engines have alot of plastic and are prone to leak from alot of places. Has the shop done a coolant system pressure test? That would probably rule out (or locate) a leaking intake manifold. Theres also a crossover pipe under the manifold that is rather notorious for developing leaks that are very difficult to see. They can sometimes also identify a head gasket, but I wouldn't even begin that process without identifying the suspected faulty cylinder via a misfire.

If your not overheating or misfiring, and your only symptom thus far is eating some coolant, I would be hesitant to replace the engine. With proper care I have seen these things go 500k+.

 

[SierraHawk]

I wouldn't rely on the rather vague diagnosis you have received so far, unless there is more info you haven't disclosed. The CO coolant test can be done a few different ways, and some are suspect. If they used a 4 or 5 gas analyzer and can repeat the test, including whatever daily calibration those machines require to confirm, I might be more confident in the diag.

A quart of coolant every couple weeks is also rather vague. Is that a quart every 100 miles, or a quart every 1000 miles?

As mentioned previously, these engines have alot of plastic and are prone to leak from alot of places. Has the shop done a coolant system pressure test? That would probably rule out (or locate) a leaking intake manifold. Theres also a crossover pipe under the manifold that is rather notorious for developing leaks that are very difficult to see. They can sometimes also identify a head gasket, but I wouldn't even begin that process without identifying the suspected faulty cylinder via a misfire.

If your not overheating or misfiring, and your only symptom thus far is eating some coolant, I would be hesitant to replace the engine. With proper care I have seen these things go 500k+.

That is pretty much where I am at. I will leave Las Vegas, NV next week and head to Reno. If we don't get stranded in the desert, I will have a shop in Reno check everything again. I did not mention that a pressure test has been done but I do not know if they conducted the "sniff" test using calibrated equipment. Thanks for mentioning the quirky coolant leaks. Once I get settled in Reno, I'll try to find coolant on the outside of the heads/block. I'll keep you posted.