Removing E350 Windshield

[pjpvi]

For those that know me, you know that my van is not a garage queen. For the last 12 years when not on the road or trail, it spends it's time on my driveway facing the setting sun. I have over the last year been noticing the paint degrading above the windshield and now some surface rust creeping out from behind and above the windshield seal. Note that I also park nose down (my driveway is angled), so not sure if that adds to the effect of water sitting behind the rubber.

I'd like to remove the windshield and clean-up / primer the area and behind the rubber window seal. I will be driving to South America next year and the van will be in a lot of salty and humid areas. I don't care if I make it look particularly nice for the trip, just keep the rust from getting worse. I'll probably treat it to a paint job make-over when I return.

Is it possible to remove and re-install the windshield myself or am I way better off getting a professional? Can I re-use the windshield and rubber? This windshield was replaced maybe 3-4 years ago. Anyone have any experience?

On a slightly different topic, I also noticed today on the side of the van two paint bubbles maybe size of a quarter - golf ball. I could push the little bubble around under the paint. I'm thinking of just hitting it with sand paper to break the bubbles and priming it. Again, not going for aesthetics at this time (that will be later after my trip). Any thoughts on that from paint experts? I'm afraid that if there is a bubble that size under the paint it is a potential future rust spot.

Thanks for any advise.

 

[Jimo]

Following
Got the same thing going on, on a 2006 E350

 

[larrie]

I have pulled a windshield myself, although not on a van, by cutting the rubber around it first. They are not easy to pull away from the adhesive that holds them in. You definitely want to have a professional reinstall it with a new gasket.

Are their any cracks in the existing one. If so insurance may pay most of a cost of replacement. You may be a able to work a deal with a glass shop to pull the old one and install the new one at a later date.

JWA can probably provide more/better info.

 

[pjpvi]

Did some searching as I remembered a post a while ago on windshields and found it.

http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/forums/f12/leak-at-upper-windshield-corners-18780.html

I think I'll try to find a local windshield shop that will remove and return to re-install after I've done the prep work. Hope they can re-use the same windshield as this one isn't that old and in good condition still. The last one had the leaking problem mentioned in the other post.

 

[JWA-SMB]

I have pulled a windshield myself, although not on a van, by cutting the rubber around it first. They are not easy to pull away from the adhesive that holds them in. You definitely want to have a professional reinstall it with a new gasket.

Are their any cracks in the existing one. If so insurance may pay most of a cost of replacement. You may be a able to work a deal with a glass shop to pull the old one and install the new one at a later date.

JWA can probably provide more/better info.

Thanks Larrie--glad to add what I can.

The W/S you removed was set in a rubber gasket but gosh its been years and years since most common vehicles use that sort of installation. From 1992 forward all E-Series windshields are bonded to the body with an exceptionally tough adhesive, aka urethane. The average or even slightly experienced DIY mechanic simply doesn't have the necessary tools to remove auto/truck glass.

I think I'll try to find a local windshield shop that will remove and return to re-install after I've done the prep work. Hope they can re-use the same windshield as this one isn't that old and in good condition still. The last one had the leaking problem mentioned in the other post.

Don't count on the current W/S being re-used---too often they break during removal---its just part of dealing with laminated glass as found in windshields. Budget for a replacement W/S as a precaution and no surprises to the wallet.

I'd call a few independent shops, those who've been in business for a long time. Tell them you want to R&R (remove/re-install) the existing windshield, that there'll be a short time between removal and new installation. Tell them saving the old is a priority but if it doesn't work out it won't be a huge problem.

I'm not sure how insurance would be involved but hopefully you live in a state where YOU choose who repairs your van---some states allow insurance companies to direct you to their favored shops. Read that as those shops who save money by using cheap glass, the savings going to the insurance companies. Woe is he who has a deductible---you'd pay that in full without question.

Once the glass is out have the technician remove as much as the old adhesive as possible so you have good access to the pinchweld area. Remove any rust in that area however its not necessary for you to do much to the bare metal as any good adhesive system has a primer intended for this exact purpose. (W/S removal almost always scratches the factory finish enough that left untreated allows rust to form. That rust creeps between the adhesive breaking the bond and allowing a leak---its also creeps outward eventually emerging around the windshield trim.)

It would be helpful seeing these paint bubbles you mention and the general area where they're located.

HTH

 

[TomsBeast]

If you do need to replace the glass, the good news is it's a super common windshield, in stock everywhere, and inexpensive. I've used Low Price Auto Glass in Fairfield a few times, including my econoline, cheapest price around by 30%.

 

[pjpvi]

JWA - Thanks for the great information! I was doubtful that the window could be re-used.
I'll see if I can get some photos of the paint bubbles. Hard to see in person so not sure if it will show up well.

Tom - I'll check out your window source. Appreciate the lead.

 

[shenrie]

Our windshield guy as been able to r&r a few for us but as others mentioned be ready to buy a new one just in case. He was always upfront with how good the odds were that it would break.

Since we are on the subject of windshields, I have a oddball question...

Does anyone have or know of a brand of windshield that doesn’t have the built in sun visor along the top edge for the eseries?

 

[JWA-SMB]

If you do need to replace the glass, the good news is it's a super common windshield, in stock everywhere, and inexpensive. I've used Low Price Auto Glass in Fairfield a few times, including my econoline, cheapest price around by 30%.

Some of that is very true---other parts not so much. No offense TomsBeast.

It is a very common W/S which does make the part itself rather inexpensive overall and by comparison. Of course this assumes we're not using the Carlite brand which is OEM----Ford is quite proud of that name on windshields.

Sorry but anyplace calling itself "low price auto glass" says a lot---they're compromising somewhere big time. Trust me on this---I'm in that business and gladly tell people I am NOT the cheapest in town. If that's what they're seeking I'm NOT the guy. I've been contacted too many times about fixing a leaking W/S; any installation performed by the low-ball providers I refer them back to the original installer to fix that cheap job.

If you'll be checking on-line reviews of any outfit look more to the negative or not-so-positive ones first. See what issues developed, what was done to correct those and how willing was the service provider to solve the issues. Glowing reviews are always highly suspect to me---but I'm old and cynical.

All too often bottom-line pricing alone shouldn't be the only decision point, not on a vehicle one intends to keep any length of time. You want someone dedicated to providing top quality installation as that's really the most important part.

So anyway PJPVI send any images you feel best show those bubbles---I'm highly curious if nothing else.

 

[pjpvi]

Thanks again JWA. I have an inquiry into a local shop and will see what they say.

I went to take a picture of the bubble this morning and couldn't find it. Cold morning by our standards at around 31 degrees and some dew on the van. Maybe it shrinks up in the cold?? I'll look again later today once the sun has been on it for a while. It was just a fluke that I saw it the other day. Sun was hitting it just right that I noticed it.

 

[TomsBeast]

Some of that is very true---other parts not so much. No offense TomsBeast.

...Sorry but anyplace calling itself "low price auto glass" says a lot---they're compromising somewhere big time. Trust me on this...

:d3:


I know what you mean, and no offense taken. I have used them 3 times now, econoline windshield 7 yrs ago (no issues to this day) having them replace a broken out driver's side Celica door glass, fix a back quarter window.



One gray haired guy to another, I bow to the advice of an auto glass seasoned veteran :b5:

 

[arctictraveller]

Once the glass is out have the technician remove as much as the old adhesive as possible so you have good access to the pinchweld area. Remove any rust in that area however its not necessary for you to do much to the bare metal as any good adhesive system has a primer intended for this exact purpose. (W/S removal almost always scratches the factory finish enough that left untreated allows rust to form. That rust creeps between the adhesive breaking the bond and allowing a leak---its also creeps outward eventually emerging around the windshield trim.)

Could you elaborate a bit? You say it's not necessary to do much to bare metal, but then you say if the factory finish is left untreated, rust will form.

I had this happen to my last van, and my truck too. A shop pulled the windshield in my van to fix a leaking issue, and they said it was so loose, one good bump on a curb may have caused it to pop out. The good news was that we were able to reuse the old one, and the rust was minimal. On my truck, I discovered the windshield had been replaced just prior to my buying it, and I bought it new, it must have had an accident on the way to the dealer. I owned it for over 15 years, and recently noticed water running down the inside of the windshield when I was washing it. Close inspection showed rust under the trim, and one day when I slammed the door with the windows up, the windshield actually moved outward. In both cases, rust had formed under the sealer, was that due to a lack of primer on the disturbed factory finish? If so, shouldn't the sealant have taken care of that? Thanks.....

 

[JWA-SMB]

Since we are on the subject of windshields, I have a oddball question...

Does anyone have or know of a brand of windshield that doesn’t have the built in sun visor along the top edge for the eseries?

Missed this yesterday when I posted my short novel...........

If you mean that dark band of color across the top of the E-Series windshields (aka "shaded" in the glass biz) they are available without and so far don't carry premium prices as "classic" replacements. The NAGS or national commonly used part number is DW01292GTY. These were called for from 1997 through 2002 E-Series.

If you call most windshield replacement outfits they'll offer to install the most recently available part DW01504GBY which is commonly used as it fits every E-Series from 1992 onward. The DW01292GTY isn't specifically called for as most people think that shade is a huge upgrade, that the shop basically gives that option away. In actuality that windshield is a bit more expensive than the "shaded" versions as they're not as common. The shop saves a bit of money using those which some pass along to the customer.

IF you choose the DW01292GTY make sure you're not being charged "premium" pricing---an upcharge of $20-30 over the DW01504GBY would be acceptable.

HTH

 

[JWA-SMB]

:d3:

One gray haired guy to another, I bow to the advice of an auto glass seasoned veteran :b5:

Well thank ya Sir--respect coming right back at cha! :d5:

Could you elaborate a bit? You say it's not necessary to do much to bare metal, but then you say if the factory finish is left untreated, rust will form.

In both cases, rust had formed under the sealer, was that due to a lack of primer on the disturbed factory finish? If so, shouldn't the sealant have taken care of that? Thanks.....

Sorry if my poor writing leads to confusion about this issue----I'll try to clarify:

Bare metal created by windshield removal absolutely needs to be treated with approved products specific to windshield replacement. Scratches in the original factory finish that expose bare metal are perfect examples; if removing the windshield doesn't scratch though the finish those areas don't need treated because the underlying metal is covered and protected from rust formation. However the likelihood of no scratches is pretty much non-existent.

As an aside modern day windshield primers are bare metal protection AND an adhesion promoter too. Many of us who do the "full strip" method of complete old urethane sealant removal use primer to almost completely eliminate windshield leaks. (Most "low ball" installers use another method called "short cut" meaning they attempt to leave as much of the existing urethane adhesive intact as a way of saving time and maybe $10 their cost of materials. Any issues with existing urethane are not corrected by a new windshield.)

In your instance of the new truck leaking this long after new does suggest some of the original adhesive bond to the body was disrupted, quite possibly due small scratches that resulted from bare metal left untreated. If removed you would probably find the adhesive still adhering to the windshield but not to the body metal. Rust has eventually formed on the bare metal which allows water to leak though where the rust has basically dissolved the urethane/metal bond.

If your W/S was replaced 15 or so years ago we didn't use primers as much back then. Rust formation post-W/S installation was common from the replaced windshield areas; products and installation techniques have changed a bit over the years. There's also a higher level of concern for quality installation by most shops.

At this point if the budget allows and you'll be keeping this van for a while longer it would best to have the windshield remove, the pinchweld inspected and repaired as needed. From your description it doesn't sound too far advanced but it certainly won't become less of an issue as time goes on.

I hope this better explains what I was trying to convey initially.

 

[marret]

@JWA, thank you very much for the schooling. Didn't know all that.

:b5:

 

[krgracia-SMB]

I have a similar issue but not as bad, I lost the clear coat only and about the same time I decided to appy some Chassis Saver 934 and Monstaliner myself. However, it could get ugly in the future since my van is a 2005 and I'm the second owner plus fairly sure nobody ever changed out the windshield ever. I have replaced the butyl ribbon on all side windows but this is a different beast and even though I have enough suction pads I would still coordinate with a pro. If I ever had to replace the windshield in the future I would be glad for the butyl gasket upgrade and I would call a SafeLite mobile glass unit for a two part job. First they would come and remove the windshield. then leave me to prep body for a good paint job and return for the windshield + butyl rubber.

 

[arctictraveller]

At this point if the budget allows and you'll be keeping this van for a while longer it would best to have the windshield remove, the pinchweld inspected and repaired as needed. From your description it doesn't sound too far advanced but it certainly won't become less of an issue as time goes on.

I hope this better explains what I was trying to convey initially.

Thanks for clearing that up. My current van has what I believe to be the original windshield, with no leaks. It was a prior van where the windshield was ready to fall out. The only leak I have in my current van is coming from somewhere under the dash on the drivers side. Opinions in another thread seem to point to a hole somewhere in the firewall or inner fender. Fortunately, there is no rust under the carpet yet, so it's a lower priority repair. Thanks again.............

 

[seasmith]

Could anyone please suggest a some Preventive Maintenance for windshield seals /

Some compatable light sealer or rust inhibitor that could be applied along the exposed metal-seal interface, at some regular intervals, to prevent water infiltration where the seal may be starting to degrade ?
Thanks

 

[JWA-SMB]

I have a similar issue but not as bad, I lost the clear coat only and about the same time I decided to appy some Chassis Saver 934 and Monstaliner myself. However, it could get ugly in the future since my van is a 2005 and I'm the second owner plus fairly sure nobody ever changed out the windshield ever. I have replaced the butyl ribbon on all side windows but this is a different beast and even though I have enough suction pads I would still coordinate with a pro. If I ever had to replace the windshield in the future I would be glad for the butyl gasket upgrade and I would call a SafeLite mobile glass unit for a two part job. First they would come and remove the windshield. then leave me to prep body for a good paint job and return for the windshield + butyl rubber.

Safelite is NOT DIY friendly at all---in fact if they show up and see OR discover rust in or around the pinch weld area they don't work on that vehicle. I'm not sure their policies allow them to even remove the glass for you---the potential liability for bodily injury isn't work the fees they'd charge for this job.

There is no butly whatsoever in, on or around windshields from 1992 onward. The windshield is what we call an encapsulated part meaning the visible molding surrounding the actual glass is part of the glass---this is an over simplified description. A properly installed windshield uses polyurethane adhesive which is not only mandated by FMVSS's but can be applied by robots saving labor costs of manufacture. The windshield itself is most likely installed by robots too which yields a more consistent installation.

For the most part think of the windshield as being welded to the body which is the net effect of the specified automotive urethane adhesive we use----it all becomes structural and aids the SRS in its function. FWIW at one point when unit body cars were new to the market their design forced the windshield to be held in place so well it could and did account for just about 60% of the front end's strength during a head-on crash. Windshields not properly retained in the pinch weld area could cause collapse of the earlier A-Pillars---not good. Additionally air bags deployed first upwards while they filled with the explosive gas first contacting the windshield before billowing outward to catch the driver's face & head when they were triggered.

As such there's no need to change or refresh any of the adhesive UNLESS a) the windshield was changed previously or b) the upper body seams separate and start leaking----this applies mostly to E-Series vans for purposes of this discussion.

IF your windshield were to be removed for work on or around its mounting area (aka "pinch weld") before any paint etc is applied all intersecting body seams must be sealed. This will probably require the area just below the outer body surfaces to be ground to bare metal, all rust removed and seams sealed to stop leaks. A suitable automotive rust preventative material such as POR-15 would be applied to all metal surfaces much like the factory does when the body is painted---no glass at all. Once all this is done any sort of decorative or appearance coating/finish can be applied, manufacturers suggestions regarding installation followed to the Tee.

Could anyone please suggest a some Preventive Maintenance for windshield seals /

Some compatable light sealer or rust inhibitor that could be applied along the exposed metal-seal interface, at some regular intervals, to prevent water infiltration where the seal may be starting to degrade ?
Thanks

There is no such thing--again we're back to keeping in mind the windshield is essentially welded to the body. If rust begins to creep out under the visible seal it has nothing to do with the seal, nothing you'd do before hand would prevent that---its forming under the windshield or the seal which is not maintainable.

If rust shows itself its time to consider pulling the windshield, finding the cause and location of the rust and treating it accordingly before the windshield is re-installed. Once this is done with proper materials and procedures there's no on-going maintenance required.

My 2000 is on only its second windshield, not replaced since before 2008 and its leak free even today. My 2003's windshield was replaced maybe 5 years ago---working as it should. My 2005 has had its windshield replaced at some point and it too is working fine.