'ten 'hut! Can't get the fan clutch off.

[SierraHawk]

2003 E350 5.4 van engine fan is not working and maybe the 2 year old thermostat is done as well...

Water pump has not been removed. Fan clutch is attached to the water pump. O'Riley's rents a tool that is composed of multiple spanner wrenches made from 1/8" plate. I spent two hours trying to remove the fan clutch with the spanner wrenches and a 2# hammer wielded laterally and got nowhere.

youtube videos show some guy using a pipe wrench and a hammer to get the threads on the clutch to break free. I have a 14" adjustable wrench attached to the clutch "nut". Hitting the wrench handle with a 2# hammer does not free the threads. The belt is not tight enough to hold the water pump shaft from turning. Even when using the spanner to keep the water pump pully from turning, the threads will not break lose. No torch available.

Also...the bolt head on one of the bolts that holds the thermostat cap in place no longer has a 6 point head. Got the first bolt out but it was torqued over 40#. The crown on the second bolt has been stripped. Tried a bolt extractor but the extractor cannot grip what remains of the bolt head.

Anyone able to surmount either of these problems?

 

[N147JK]

I think a lot of heat will be your best friend getting things loose. You say "no torch available" but all you need is a portable propane torch - they are not expensive.

 

[Twoxentrix]

I remembered a similar question posed to the group a while back (only recall due to the methods described to break the nuts loose). Not same engine but maybe it provides another approach:

03E350 clutch fan install help needed.

That posted this on a couple forums praying for some advice.... Okay... As we all find out getting the water pump or clutch fan off a 7.3 E350 is a horrible nightmare... I have never done anything that caused me so much grief on a vehicle....ever and I've got some real good stories too... lol 😄...

www.sportsmobileforum.com

Edit: oddly enough I just noticed it also shows up below this thread under ‘similar threads’…still getting used to the new forum.

 

[SierraHawk]

Got the fan off by using a Kingsford charcoal starter that acts like a miniature blow torch when lit. It provided enough heat that when directed at the "hub/nut" on the fan clutch, it frees up the threads so that the fan and clutch can be removed.

Now...how do I remove the bolt from the thermostat housing?

 

[Twoxentrix]

Is there room to get a Hex-Twist socket on the head of the bolt?

Cosda - Heavy Duty Twist Socket 1/2"

Try to remove a damaged fastener and it's too big? Our heavy duty twist socket set is here to help. Set includes 28mm, 30mm, 32mm, 33mm, 34mm, 36mm large sizes.

www.cosda.com.tw

 

[SierraHawk]

I used an extractor socket but there is not enough space to hammer it in place. The extractor fits a 3/8 inch socket. It just further rounded the damaged bolt head.

 

[N147JK]

Got the fan off by using a Kingsford charcoal starter that acts like a miniature blow torch when lit. It provided enough heat that when directed at the "hub/nut" on the fan clutch, it frees up the threads so that the fan and clutch can be removed.

Now...how do I remove the bolt from the thermostat housing?

Can you get a vice grip on the rounded-off bolt head? Try that on it, plus lots of heat from your miniature blow torch.

 

[SierraHawk]

The thermostat housing is relatively small and tucked in between the housing and something else on the other side. It is also directly under two cables that are fixed on a support. The bolts are 3/16" and 3.5" long. The head takes a 10mm socket when not rounded. I used a hex-twist extraction socket. It shaved more off the rounded bolt head probably because I could not hammer the extractor onto the bolt head.

After installing the fan & clutch, I took the van for a test drive. It drove without over heating or losing any coolant. Now all I have to do is remove the impossibly small bolt that sits in a small, almost inaccessible area. I can't get anything like vice grips or an impact wrench into the small space where the bolt head is located.

 

[N147JK]

Only way forward I can think of is an EZ-Out extractor. These require a pilot hole drilled down the center of the bolt shaft. You may need a 90-degree attachment to make the hole.

 

[kbeefy]

Or run it as is until it's a problem. Sounds like the fan may have fixed your issue.

 

[SierraHawk]

N1 I will look for a right angle drill attachment. We ae in Carson City. After replacing the fan clutch, I drove the van about 10 miles yesterday and had no problems. This morning we had to drive to the store. The tripp is about 6 miles RT. There is a 1/2 mile hill we have to drive up to get home. The engine got hot again and blew coolant out of the reservoir opening. It took several gallons of water to get the van back on the road.

The only other thing that can cause this particular problem is the thermostat. On the weekend, most of the shops are closed and busy during the week. If I can remove the thermostat bolt, it will take 15 minutes to change thermostats. Glad I am not in some remote setting in northern Nevada.

 

[kbeefy]

I wouldn't say the only thing that can cause that is a t stat. As a matter of fact, I'd say the likelihood of that being a stuck t stat is pretty low, but after overheating it is advisable to replace them.

You can monitor t stat operation with a temp gun easy enough. Or a scan tool by charting the ECT pid vs time, you can watch the t stat modulate. That's my preferred method if I have the time.

I have seen that exact behavior due to low coolant with air in the system, or head gasket issues. A failing water pump or clogged radiator can also present similar symptoms.

 

[SierraHawk]

Thanks for the diagnostic info. I just got hung up on the thermostat because it is generally an easy job and I am at an impasse. Water pump was installed two years ago. It is not leaking. I've put dye into the coolant. The only place it shows up is when the coolant is ejected from the reservoir. The dye does not show up in the valley between the heads or along the side of the block.

I've considered a bubble but the flid in the reservoir stays at the same level until it literally blows. The intervals between the emptying of the reservoir varies. Sometimes the gauge stays steady but will suddenly, without any warning, jump to the "H". That is when the coolant is disgorged from the reservoir.

When I lose coolant, I wait for the engine to cool and then fill the reservoir to the "full" line. When driving, I check it every 10 to 20 minutes. Coolant stays "full" until the coolant is ejected from the reservoir.

Last week there were fluctuations in the fluid level and I would just add more water. It appears to me that the water gets into the radiator but cannot get past the thermostat.

I do have temp gun. It is snowing here. I'lll check the thermostat tomorrow. Hopefully the cold weather will make it easier to see cold spots. The radiator is easy to swap out. I can use the temp gun to check the radiator to see if it has cold and hot areas.

I've checked the oil. No sign of coolant in the oil. Engine runs with no misses or loss of power.

 

[N147JK]

Could it be as simple as a bad cap? The caps are not the high pressure radiator caps, but they still must seal properly for the system to pressurize. I had a Saturn sedan once that would do the same thing - overheat for no apparent reason and boil over out of the filler cap. Went round and round on all sorts of stuff, but it turned out to be the be cap itself. A new cap fixed the problem.

 

[kbeefy]

I don't think a failing cap would give a 'hot' indication on the gauge, at least not until enough coolant had been lost to make it overheat. A bad thermostat or clogged radiator are both also slow steady climbs, not sudden spikes.

I wonder if putting a pressure test set in place of the cap might tell you something.

When you check it every 10-20 minutes, have you noticed if the upper radiator hose is becoming pressurized? It should have some pressure, but not super firm. I have seen people with a bad head gasket drive quite a while with the cap loose so it can releive pressure below the cap pressure point to prevent coolant loss.

 

[N147JK]

I don't think a failing cap would give a 'hot' indication on the gauge

What I saw was a steady, nonstop rise in indicated temp. Because the cap was preventing the pressurization of the system, just as the temp reached 212 the fluid would instantly start boiling out from around the cap.

To clarify.. fluid is coming out from under the filler cap - is that correct?

 

[SierraHawk]

The daytime ambient temps this morning were in the mid 40s F.

Before starting the engine, emp gun shows engine block at 45F. After letting the engine run for 20 minutes, the thermostat opens at 150F. When thermostat is open, the top of the radiator gets up to 145.

After a 10 minute drive, the lower hose and lower radiator tank are at 77F (upper hose is 145F). When squeezed, the lower radiator hose feels like there is no coolant. Radiator fin temps do not get above 65.

Degas reservoir begins to get warm (106F) after about 30 minutes of engine running. It is consistent with the thermostat opening. The bottom reservoir hose is 80F.

Opened the filler cap but no pressure buildup...yet.

 

[SierraHawk]

N1 When the Degas reservoir empties, the cap is actually sitting (not screwed on) on top of the Degas reservoir. I don't have a way to measure the pressure in the Degas when the pressure builds up with the cap still on.

 

[JWA-SMB]

I've personally used the pipe wrench method and its very simple not to mention effective too. I did purchase a dedicated tool but honestly its no more useful than a pipe wrench.

Typically that retaining nut isn't so tight a relatively light tap on the pipe wrench loosens it, IMHO anyway.

For the damaged bolt head perhaps use a larger pair of vice-grip pliers or removed the water pump completely and work on removing the damaged bolt with that added room?

Too much heat from any source might damage the shaft seal? With the pump off a bit of Kroil or other high quality penetrating oil will work to loose an over-torgued fastener?

Good luck with this!

 

[SierraHawk]

Thermostat is working. I've gone through the system and even installed a new radiator. Drove the van over Luther Pass today and into the Tahoe basin. If I drive over 40mph, the engine is still ejecting coolant every 4 to 8 miles but the engine temperatures are at about 160F. Despite everything, the engine runs perfectly and as long as there is coolant in the system, the van keeps on rolling.

The default explanation is there is a leak in the head gasket. That translates into needing a rebuilt engine. So...I am now looking for a garage in Carson City/Reno that can install a rebuilt engine into a 2003 E350.

Anyone have a good experience with a rebuilt engine?