The trouble with Powerstop rotors

[arctictraveller]

Three photos, one the original Ford front rotor that was on the van when I bought it five years ago. The other two are new (5000mi) Powerstop slotted / drilled rotors with Powerstop supplied pads. The Powerstop rotors are trashed, but the original Fords are mirror like. The holes in the rotors are completely plugged, and the slots are almost level with the disc surface. Corrosion is the problem, the van only sat for a couple months while the rotors rusted away unknown to me. Oddly, today I was at the local autoparts buying more ATF and on the counter was a Powerstop rotor, the same exact rotor I have. Their machine shop had just turned it and the guy mentioned it was in bad shape when they got it, but didn't mention the exact problem. So, I suspect Powerstop is sourcing their castings in China with little to no Quality control on the metalurgy. When you look at the original rotors there is very little rust while the rears are completely corroded to the point of plugging the holes. More to come after I call powerstop (and Summit, where I bought them)

 

[arctictraveller]

It suddenly occured to me that Summit is open 24 / 7, so I called them. It was after 1am at Summit HQ, but the phones were answered quickly. While talking to a very nice lady I looked up the Powerstop website and discovered the rotors are under warranty for rust within 60 days of Purchase. (HASSLE FREE)! Wow, 60 whole days. Well, the woman on the phone was great. Despite buying the rotors last April, she sent me a pre-paid shipping label, and will credit me so I can buy a different set of pads and rotors. Customer satisfaction. I still intend to call Powerstop on Monday though...........

 

[JWA-SMB]

Sorry to hear you've had problems with new parts----good its been resolved.

Summit Racing and Jeg's are both somewhat local to me, both located here in Ohio. FWIW I've been buying stuff from Jeg's since the middle 60's, their last (and first/original) remaining brick & mortar store still open and thriving not too far from me. Along with eBay and Amazon they're one of the sites I'll check for so many things automotive related, not just higher performance items.

I've often heard of the Powerstop brand, one guy on FTE touting them with his own money-back guarantee to anyone disappointed in the performance. Yeah fat chance that ever coming true but it would be great testing his promise with your situation AT.

For whatever reason that brand has never appealed to me, could be I'm a price-snob thinking most costly is "better" somehow. I've used nothing but stock-style rotors, calipers and other brake parts directly from Ford. The only aftermarket parts are NAPA's Ultra Premium pads--@$100 for the front set maybe they meet my "more $$ is better" mindset?

I'll be interested in hearing Powerstop's reply especially since you have photos.

 

[C190P]

This makes me feel real good I just put a complete set of powerstops on last week.

 

[arctictraveller]

This make me feel real good I just put a complete set of powerstops on last week.

The performance of the rotor / pad combo was great with a noticeable improvement in braking. The issue is rust. Prior to driving for the first time after sitting for a couple months, the rotors looked like cast iron that had been sitting in salt water with heavy corrosion. I will admit that just prior to sitting, I spent time in Montana where they seem to de-ice the roads with a mixture of salt and acid. When I got home, the underbody corrosion was extensive for only a couple weeks of exposure. I spent a lot of time pressure washing, treating and painting the worst of it, but there's nothing you can do to the rotors besides wash them. It's possible I got some from a bad batch and this is a rare problem, I hope yours don't suffer the same fate. The good news is that Summit is making this good, and changing them doesn't take long. I just need to figure out what to use next.

 

[MadScience]

Offhand that does look like a lot of wear for 5000 miles. Perhaps if those miles were all at speed on a racetrack.

Did you manage to measure the remaining rotor thickness? I'm curious how much of the rotor is actually gone, vs the slots / holes filled in with rust and brake dust. I do see a bit of a lip on the side, but I feel like the slots would have been deeper than that.

Also, did you take those pictures after driving for a bit? I don't really understand how the pads wouldn't scrape off the rust.

 

[arctictraveller]

Also, did you take those pictures after driving for a bit? I don't really understand how the pads wouldn't scrape off the rust.

I only drove a few miles, but the rust was so bad that I assume it simply got impacted into the pads and coated the surface of the pads too. I tried poking out a couple of the holes, but the only thing that would work would be a drill. The slots are filled with the same thing as the holes, rust, brake dust, and possibly some mud. The fronts on the other hand have a like new surface finish. I plan to pull the wheels today and will measure the rotor thickness, but I don't think wear is the big issue here. I suspect a lack of chromium in the metalurgy.

 

[flyr6105]

This doesn't bode well! I too just installed a set on the rear of my van and have the fronts waiting for me to put on. Guess I'll watch this post to see how others have fared.

 

[arctictraveller]

I spoke to a Powerstop tech today and they confirmed that they source their rotors from China. I have a lot of experience with Chinese metalurgy, mostly with gate and check valves used on overboard skin valves on ships. We installed quite a few one winter because they were less expensive, and by mid summer they were corroded shut, wouldn't move and had to be replaced. My sailboat had Chinese stainless fittings that all rusted and streaked rust down the hull. Casting metal is a bit like baking a cake, you can follow the recipe and get predictable results, or you can try substuting less expensive materials, but the end result might not be so tasty. It's possible that Powerstop simply got a bad batch of blanks, but there is no way to tell, so I'm going back to stock Ford rotors. Hopefully, other batches are more corrosion resistant, there must be thousands of Powerstop rotors out there that are performing fine. Additionally, as long as the van is used on a regular basis, surface rust should be worn off quickly, but mine sat for a couple months while the transfer case was out.

 

[REF]

If you’re looking for an upgrade from stock, I’ve had good luck with my frozen rotors up front, got the slotted set. Holding up and still look and function great after several years with no significant rust, but I don’t live near the coast. Not sure of rotor origins


'03 Ford E350 7.3L Diesel
SMB RB50 w/CCV top
Quigley 4X4 w/Deavers & Agile RIP kit

 

[arctictraveller]

Well, lots of phone calls have taken place and here's where I currently stand. Summit has done a 180deg turn on replacing the rotors. They now refuse to even discuss replacing them, and say they only gaurantee against rust for 60 days. Another call to Powerstop (different guy this time) confirms that the metal used is prone to rusting out, and they will be happy to replace them with what ever different type I'd like. Great, with assistance from their tech, we pick out a set made in Germany that are made from a different metal. He confirms he will ship them out same day for delivery in two days, can't beat that. The following day, he calls back to say they don't have them in stock, and it wont be until July when they get them in. Ok, lets try another type, but it turns out they have nothing in stock except the same crappy one's I already have. Meanwhile, I'm trying to depart on Friday for a two week trip, so for now I guess I'll pick up a stock pair at the autoparts store. The saga continues.............

 

[shenrie]

so was your braking with these powerstop rotors diminished? are there cracks in the rotors at all?

personally i wont use crossdrilled rotors ever. ive seen what happens to them under abusive conditions (autox/track days) and they always crack. i was told the only crossdrilled rotors that don't crack are Porsche rotors cause they are cast that way and not actually drilled.

I say abusive and to me with the weight of these vans and a long downhill the vans rotors are getting some serious abuse.

i started using brembo blanks after that set of crossdrilled rotors that i acquired for free started cracking. every set ive bought had excellent braking and got good life even with lots and lots of abuse (and beautiful coloring with blues, purples, bronzes, etc, lol). the price has always been right as well.

either way, i hope you can get it squared away where it doesn't impact your wallet too much.

 

[flyr6105]

I was planning on returning my front PowerStop rotors, but it looks like I am stuck with them. I'll watch them after I start driving and update this thread.

 

[JoeH-SMB]

Here's a couple of links since some of the posts in this thread are with reference to aftermarket parts and production. FMTRVT is also TooManyTools on FTE and was a product tester in the brake industry. He knows his stuff.
Front Brake Suggestions and Hints - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1465495-time-for-brakes.html

 

[arctictraveller]

so was your braking with these powerstop rotors diminished? are there cracks in the rotors at all?

.

In the begining, braking power seemed better. After discovering all the rust, and driving up and down some steep hills in a effort to scrub it off, braking power seemed somewhat less, as would be expected when the pads are impacted with big flakes of rust particles. There are no cracks or detectable wear. The problem is that they rusted so badly, it filled the holes and slots and ruined the pads. Adding very small amounts of different kinds of metals and minerals at the steel mill is a real science. Smelting raw ore and adding different amounts of different kinds of scrap metal to the mix, has a huge impact on the propertys of the end product. Mixing raw materials like coke, limestone and iron ore are the basics of the mix, then other trace minerals are added to give the metal the desired propertys, depending on the end use. Once they have added the proper amounts of each material, they take a sample to the lab for a quality check. Once the lab says they are good to go, they poor the molten metal into ingots, slabs or large blocks which are later formed into the desired product. If the quality control is off, or just as likely, they are trying to save money and say it's good enough as is, no one will know, the end consumer gets an inferior product. Bolts are a good example. Counterfit bolts are a huge problem in aircraft. Any bolt used in an aircraft has certificates that follow them from the foundry where the metal was created, to the company that sells them, to the mechanic that installs them, they can all be traced back to the origin should there be a problem. Then there are fake bolts that seem to have the proper paperwork, but don't have the required strength and end up being counterfit. There is no such traceability with brake rotors that I know of, and the manufacturer gets what ever the foundry provides, unless they do their own lab analysis, which I doubt they do. So, I suspect my rotors used metal with inferior corrosion propertys. Since the fronts are still perfect and they both had the same exposure, it's clear to me there is little corrosion resistance in the Powerstops. Hopefully it was just one bad batch. Fortunately, I'm only out about $100 at this point, so it's a pretty minor expense. The new ones go on tonight.

 

[arctictraveller]

I was planning on returning my front PowerStop rotors, but it looks like I am stuck with them. I'll watch them after I start driving and update this thread.

I was happy with mine prior to them rusting. They had improved performance, no noise, and seemed fine. If you dont let them sit for long periods, or drive in corrosive conditions (on the beach, through de-icer etc) they should not be a problem. Hopefully, the blanks Powerstop used had better metalurgical propertys than mine did. I'm guessing you will be ok.

 

[JWA-SMB]

Here's a couple of links since some of the posts in this thread are with reference to aftermarket parts and production. FMTRVT is also TooManyTools on FTE and was a product tester in the brake industry. He knows his stuff.
Front Brake Suggestions and Hints - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1465495-time-for-brakes.html

Fascinating reading---thanks for sharing those links. :d5:

I did learn the Hawk pads might be a worthwhile look---not sure they'd be a real improvement for me but do seem to be something to consider.

 

[flyr6105]

I think it is too late for me to replace the slotted rotors on the rear. The spacers were an absolute bear to remove. Since my van is definitely going to see lots of beach driving, I ordered Motorcraft front rotors. I have contacted the vendor CARiD to see if they would take the PowerStop rotors back. Keeping my beat up fingers crossed.

 

[REF]

I believe the Hawk LTS pads were what was recommended I use and are what I’m running now. There was a reason why I was told not to go with their superduty pads, even though the description sounds right for our rigs, I think it was because of the compound they use for them, they tend to squeak really badly.
I acquired my rather well sorted E36 M3 with race pads on the front, I enjoy the extra grip, but not so much the cringe worthy wailing that ensues every time I come to a stop, not to mention the looks I get from nearby motorists and pedestrians “Dude, you need to fix your brakes!”


'03 Ford E350 7.3L Diesel
SMB RB50 w/CCV top
Quigley 4X4 w/Deavers & Agile RIP kit

 

[JoeH-SMB]

I have the Hawk LTS pads on dynatrac rotors. No issues with noise, dust, or decreased stopping distance when cold. At least not by my seat of the pants measureometer.