Warning to 6.0 PSD Owners with Amsoil System

[Greg In Austin]

Jeffery,

I was thinking the same thing. We happen to have an extra pair of filters already in hand.

I also want to wait and hear the conclusions and maybe directions from SMB. We have no reason to need to drive (unless Baylor and OK State come through today) for the next couple of weeks.

.

 

[John and Dana]

I agree that switching the flow direction on a filter that has been used for a while time will probably send some of the trapped particulate matter back through the oil system. It would be best to swap out filters.

John :c3:

 

[PeasBugs]

I took a look at my filter setup today after reading this thread. Mine is set up with the left hose going to the left port on the engine adaptor and the right hose off of the filters going to the right port on the engine adaptor.(From this thread that sounds like it is set up incorrectly) I started up the van and took it for a quick drive. The full flow filter was warm and the by pass filter was still cold. After a little longer drive the full flow filter was hot and the bypass filter was warm to the touch. To me, without pulling the whole thing off to check the flow direction, that seems to be working correctly? I will wait, to change the hoses, for further info. Thanks for the info. Mine is a September 2007 SMB west.

 

[daveb-SMB]

I'm a bit puzzled because after warning the motor up for 10min in the driveway, the large bypass filter remains cool to the touch and the small filter is warm/hot. But after driving at highway speeds for 15-20 miles, the bypass filter is warm/hot too. In the driveway, my tranny temp never got above 120, so I'm not sure I reached full operating temp. After driving on the highway, my tranny temp was up to the normal 160-165. If the bypass does not function until higher motor temps, then that may be consistent with my experience and my setup is OK. Hmmmm.

Rob

Both Jim with AMSOIL and Heber @ SMB said the bypass filter is still working so both will be warm after running the engine long enough. Heber agreed that lines do need to be swapped but the BP filter is still working, just not to its full potential. SMB plans to make a general announcement soon. I would like to know if anybody has a system that’s hooked up correctly. I’m sure SMB would also like to know. Being mine was setup in December of 05 and I’m see others that have the same problem with newer vehicles, maybe they have set the systems up that way from day one.

(I also noticed a decrease in engine noise and the motor did run much smoother after I switched to AMSOIL early this year @24K. Another plus was seeing the mileage increased about 2 MPG when running at highway speeds).

 

[EMrider]

I'm a bit puzzled because after warning the motor up for 10min in the driveway, the large bypass filter remains cool to the touch and the small filter is warm/hot. But after driving at highway speeds for 15-20 miles, the bypass filter is warm/hot too. In the driveway, my tranny temp never got above 120, so I'm not sure I reached full operating temp. After driving on the highway, my tranny temp was up to the normal 160-165. If the bypass does not function until higher motor temps, then that may be consistent with my experience and my setup is OK. Hmmmm.

Rob

Both Jim with AMSOIL and Heber @ SMB said the bypass filter is still working so both will be warm after running the engine long enough. Heber agreed that lines do need to be swapped but the BP filter is still working, just not to its full potential. SMB plans to make a general announcement soon. I would like to know if anybody has a system that’s hooked up correctly. I’m sure SMB would also like to know. Being mine was setup in December of 05 and I’m see others that have the same problem with newer vehicles, maybe they have set the systems up that way from day one.

(I also noticed a decrease in engine noise and the motor did run much smoother after I switched to AMSOIL early this year @24K. Another plus was seeing the mileage increased about 2 MPG when running at highway speeds).

Helpful info, thanks.

I drove about 6 hours yesterday. After about 15-20min, both filters were warm/hot so there is something happening in the bypass filter.

Since we both have 06 vans and ours were done incorrectly, I'd have to assume that all of the Amsoil systems were done incorrectly from the start.
Rob

 

[charlie56]

Its now official.
Left goes right and right goes left.

 

[Buji]

Charlie, I take it you got that diagram from Peter? Did he mention of there would be an informational bulletin posted on the sportsmobile.com website?
Did anyone (at SM offer any conjecture on what the impact if this mis-plumbing would be? I personally chose amsoil for the longer service intervals and haven't changed my oil with the regularity required by standard filtration. This was a selling point by SMB to me on this system.

I can't check my van's amsoil configuration because it's at SMBw for the 6th time in it's inaugural year for AC problems, and to have the drivers side repainted for a second time. I know some of you are aware of my issues with SMB so I won't recount that here.
:c1:
I'm very curious to find out what the official response from SMB. I just called to check on the status of my van and I left a vmail for Peter, and I asked him about the status of my van but also what the official consensus is from SMB's standpoint, if they have one yet. :r1:

 

[charlie56]

Charlie, I take it you got that diagram from Peter? Did he mention of there would be an informational bulletin posted on the sportsmobile.com website?

No such luck yet. This was the complete email that accompanied the drawing from Peter.

Hi Charlie,
The enclosed attachment illustrates the correct Amsoil line routing.
Please feel free to contact me with any concerns or comments.
You will not loose any oil except for what is in the lines.
Thank You,
Peter

Hopefully they are formulating a plan to officially notify us. They have to realize that this will have some financial ramifications. They certainly can't expect everyone will be able to swap out the lines themselves. I think they also need to address the expense of replacing filters, oil, and providing an oil analysis to put our minds at ease that there isn't any long term damage. For me I don't see much chance of damage as I only had 6k miles on this oil change and the backwards full flow hopefully did its job, but those who have had the same oil for a year or more (assuming the bipass was doing its job) may have reason to be a bit more concerned.

I thought I would give them a week to flush things out before responding back.

 

[CJ-SMB]

I cant wait to see this one. I hope it's all inclusive and ZERO cost to the consumer(s).

:a7:

I'm waiting for formal notification before I even look.

 

[Sportsmobile West]

Sportsmobile will soon be coming out with a statement on how the AMS Oil situation will be addressed. Testing is going on to determine the best approach to take on this issue. Oil samples from a few different rigs have been sent to AMS Oil for analysis. These samples were taken from vans that had some different characteristics such as...mileage...year...and from vans with lines run both ways.

If you are do for an oil/filter change, feel free to swap the lines as shown in the diagram posted by Charlie as you do the filter change. If you are not due to change the filters, take no action until further notice. I am very sorry that this has inconvenienced and/or added any stress to an already hectic time!

Again thanks to all the members who continue to provide valuable information and great stories/trip reports as the SMB community continues to grow and thrive!

Jonny

 

[oldbonesclimber]

I have a 2007 RB 50 6.0 also. Mine is also plumbed bassackwards. I'm very upset that such a neglent issue could occur. I purchased a diesel for it's longevity and expect at least 200k from the interrnal parts. This may constitute a class action suit. Why should SMB get away with nothing has happened yet suffice. What premature wear has already occurred?
I'm doccumenting all of it. SMB should be held accountable. What do you think would happen if our CHECKS were written with a minus sign to the amount. Would SMB just shrug it Off?


:a7:
OLDBONESCLIMBER
2007 6.0 PSD RB50

 

[Jammyauto]

Should'nt the oil be sent to a 3rd party for testing rather than AMS oil?

 

[EMrider]

I have a 2007 RB 50 6.0 also. Mine is also plumbed bassackwards. I'm very upset that such a neglent issue could occur. I purchased a diesel for it's longevity and expect at least 200k from the interrnal parts. This may constitute a class action suit. Why should SMB get away with nothing has happened yet suffice. What premature wear has already occurred?
I'm doccumenting all of it. SMB should be held accountable. What do you think would happen if our CHECKS were written with a minus sign to the amount. Would SMB just shrug it Off?


:a7:
OLDBONESCLIMBER
2007 6.0 PSD RB50

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that this oversight caused any problems. Heck, until this thread, we were all just happily driving our SMBs totally unaware of the situation. I'm not happy about the snafu, but I don't see what 'being accountable' should cause SMB to do for owners. If it were convenient, I'd have them switch the oil lines for me, but Fresno is 5 hours away so I'll do it myself.
R

 

[CJ-SMB]

Oh it.s currently being tested by an independent lab alright!

lets not make threats, just take your own actions and keep your own records of everything. But allow SMB the opportunity to take swift appropriate actions to remedy this unfortunate manufacturing/assembly deficiency.

I for one expect a detailed cause and corrective action to be taken, one that will correct the specific defect, preclude it from ever happening agin, determine if repair or replacement is necessary, replacement of specific items involved, and appropriate customer compensation. Maybe more depending on future outcomes.

The longer it takes to get the official word the worse it could get.

I learned a valuable lesson with the flat plate water heater. It cost me a few hundred dollars and a two days off of work. All for the lack of quality control in receiving inspection and lack of vendor controls and in my opinion unacceptable customer service by SMB West.

They are nice people at SMB west but enough is enough. The more I sit here the more I think it should not be acceptable to any of us and this forum is the place to speak out loud about all lack of quality control, assurance, reliability, and maintainability issues for these 60K + vehicles most of which are at the 100K+ value.

Some of us routinely use these vehicles to go to remote locations. The extreme oil related stress I just recently put mine through doing Mengel pass, parts of Pleasant Canyon, Swansea Cerro and Lippincott trails this past week makes me question......... the confidence I had and the life of my SMB.

They are fun However feel free to voice REALITY !

:b8: :b8: :a7: :a7: :a1: :k6:

 

[Buji]

Again thanks to all the members who continue to provide valuable information and great stories/trip reports as the SMB community continues to grow and thrive!

Jonny

Johnny, thanks for taking the time to reply to let us know that SMB is still formulating a plan. I have high hopes that SMB will come back with a response that not only clarifies the situation as well as addresses any consumer discomfort due to the mix up. At the very least, let me just express my thanks in your participation on this matter.

 

[Buji]

I, like many of the other SMB owners affected, also feel like there is an unknown and somewhat incalculable level of damage whether direct or indirect. Let me try to clarify. It's like car insurance. (which to me, the upgraded oil system was a measure of insurance that the expensive diesel upgrade would last the 15 years I plan to use the vehicle.)

So let's say I buy car insurance, but haven't had a wreck in three years. No problem, no worries. I haven't even been pulled over for a ticket, so at no point have I been forced to check my insurance statement.
One day, I happen to start investigating my coverage, and I find that my coverage is only for the absolute minimum, when I was under the impression that I had full coverage with replacement value yaddah yaddah due to the initial contract with the insurance company. If I had an initial contract with the insurance company saying that by paying $100 a month, I would have full coverage, when in fact they had only created a policy for minimum coverage. That would not be very good, and would indicate a lack of coverage this whole time.

Maybe this analogy is a little thin. It sounded good in my mind when I started typing it, but I was too slow getting it out on the keyboard to really capture what I was thinking.

Obviously, the other concern is what is direct damage from this issue. At the bottom line you've got folks who were operating their vehicles with the AMSOil service intervals when they weren't getting the additional filtration necessary to do so. I'm sure at one point or another we've all let the oil change slip from 3000 miles to 5000 miles in our old beaters, but going twice the distance on a much more expensive vehicle... that's supposed to last a long time... and has been on many dusty trails... under high heat and heavy usage...

I split this second message off of my initial reply to Johnny because I didn't want to give the impression that I'm looking for answers from him directly at this point. I'm (at this point) merely having my part of the conversation with the community. As I said above, I'm hopeful that SMB will do the right thing by the owners, and in the meantime I'd like them to focus on making the right decisions.

 

[CJ-SMB]

Well said and I think I understand your initial thought.

The technical damage, if any most likely cannot be proven nor fixed nor taken back by SMB However, I’m’ absolutely sure that if correct decisions are made and the appropriate actions are taken every customer can be satisfied

:b1:




:d5:

 

[jage]

CJ, reading your response I couldn't help but think of this poster:

:b1:

 

[CJ-SMB]

:c8:

Ah, 'Listless condition'........... yep I think its going to be.

:k7:

I think the web address on that poster better describes it all. lol

 

[daveb-SMB]

I, like many of the other SMB owners affected, also feel like there is an unknown and somewhat incalculable level of damage whether direct or indirect.

I asked about this problem with several diesel mechanics that maintain out fleet. All agreed that the oil running backwards was not a problem unless you went for unusually long intervals between oil changes. Being our utility tests the oil on all our BIT vehicles regularly and they are getting 10 to 12K miles using stock Delo motor oil, I think using AMSOIL filters (which are supposed to superior) and higher grade synthetic oil will only add longevity to our motors. But what one mechanic said hit home with me. He asked "do you test the oil every 5K miles"? How many owners do? I don't but will now. If some kind of contaminate gets into the oil, it's best to catch it as early as possible. I also plan to change the oil every 10-15K miles.

As for SMB's responsibilty, I hope they spring for the filters at least. It would be a simple token but they really should pay for the oil also IMO.

Dave