My master disconnect switch does not work right

[Angel]

I know where the 110v circuit breaker is but where is the 12v circuit breaker?
All I see are fuses on the front of the box.

Angel

[daveb]

I'm not sure but I suspect there is one bus wire that feeds the fuse panel and then the DC is dispersed throughout the van. That is where I would cut in the switch if it were me; before the fuse panel. Of course if there are several bus wires that branch off to other areas of the van you won't be able to make your goal that way. You would need multiple switches. Breakers whether AC or DC don't make good switches and using them constantly could cause problems down the road. I feel pulling fuses is just not practical. You might talk with Sportsmobile and tell them exactly what you want and have them give you the information you need to give to the RV shop.

But if your van sits in sun why disconnect the batteries? The only time I would want to disconnect the batteries is if I stored my van inside under dark conditions or if I had no solar. You just need to make sure everything is off before you leave on a trip. I'll try to E-mail you some info.
Dave

[Greg In Austin]

We have a 12v panel under our gaucho somewhat adjacent to the 110v breakers. IIRC there is one feeder fuse that can be pulled to kill the entire panel.

[Greggd]

Angel ,
One of quickest way's to shorten the life expectancy of Deep Cycle Battery's is to allow them to sit idle for periods of time ! ideally you there should always some current running to it even at trickle .
Greggde

[Angel]

Thanks everyone for all your help and advice. Thanks Dave B for the e mail of your course in how the electrical system works in a SMB from http://autoramblings.com/ "Autoramblings Special Vehicle Section Part 10 by Dave B"

I will leave everything as is for now and not disconnect anything when I am gone. (and "no worries" thanks to you all)

Angel

[joey2cool]

I've been following Daveb and others on the SportsmobileForum and have come to appreciate your practical knowledge of SMBs. After reading all the electrical postings on this forum and AutoRamblings Part 10 by Daveb I still have a nagging Charging Wizard question you may be able to help me figure out.
I just bought a 2010 Ford E250 2WD Gas V8 (and an OEM 155 amp alternator) via SMB West. Equipment includes two 27 AGM house batteries, one OEM starting battery, a separator (SurePower Automatic Charging Relay is what it's called I believe), a Blue Sea Power Converter/Charger, and a battery disconnect switch (to allow me to turn off any draw on the house battery, especially infamous detectors, when not connected to shore power or not in need of the house system). No solar, no generator, and no inverter.
What's bothering me is that when I'm not connected to shore power and the battery disconnect switch is in the "open" position (i.e., house batteries isolated from any load), the Charge Wizard light is on and it is changing charging mode periodically - from LED solid steady to flashing once per second, and later to flashing once every 8 seconds (I notice a clicking sound on occassion too).
I can't tell how it's wired and I'm concerned it's hooked up to the starting battery and draining it unnecessarily. My voltmeter seems to confirming - the house batteries are holding their charge nicely in storage at about 12.8V while the starting battery is slowly running down from about 12.9V an hour after parking the van, to about 12.4V several days later (with no driving, or system use, or shore power during that time). I have a security system with an estimated one milliamp draw (per the installer) on the starting battery. Don't know what Ford may be using the starting battery for while parked (can't see any indication of lights or devices in use).
Should I be concerned? Any suggestions?

[daveb]

Joey, so you're saying the charge wizard is connected to the power converter and the converter is not plugged into shore power? The charge wizard is made for when the van is stored and maintains the battery systems so I assume the vehicle is stored where you have no AC and can't use the converter/charger correct?

Just off the top of my head, besides the alarm, the radio does pull a slight amount. Your best bet for long term storage might be to install a kill terminal or battery switch on the chassis system.

Also with everything off, touch the Surepower separator and make sure it's not warm to the touch. It should be cold to the touch but it also uses circuitry to monitor the voltages and I’m not sure if it uses any power while sitting static. Surepower could tell you.


Swapping out the wet cell batteries for AGM style would help as well. They don't loose charge as fast while sitting idle, but the real solution is to find the draw or completely isolate the chassis battery system from the rig as that seems to be where you are having the problem. Some chargers can pull juice out of the battery if connected but not plugged in. I don't know about your charge wizard and converter.

If I was to store my van for long periods w/o a way to keep a maintenance charge on, I would isolate all the batteries form the van AND from each other. You don't want one of the batteries to pull another one down leaving two dead batteries. You have a gas engine with a single battery so you don't have to worry about that but you do have two house batteries connected together that might give you some trouble down the road. Many folks with off road race cars install a simple battery terminal disconnect. Cheap but you have to be able to reach the battery terminals.
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/images/74 ... 4_inst.pdf

[joey2cool]

Checked this evening. One week ago Monday was the last time the van was driven. Have not hooked up to shore power yet. I could and will just as soon as I understand how the SMB set-up and Ford configuration work without juice. I figure this is the easiest way to begin to learn my system inside and out - starting simple first. I'd like to hook to shore power as little as possible since it's one more thing to do. However, I also want to take real good care of my batteries. I walk to work and the vehicle will be used once every week or two, mostly for weekend errands and fun excursions that involve an hour or more of driving - no way to know how much yet.

Blue Sea Automatic Charger Relay is cold to the touch. InteliPower 9160A Converter/Charger is also cold to the touch. InteliPower Charger Wizard is flashing green LED once every 5 seconds (storage mode). Van starting battery leveled off at 12.4V and holding steady. Ok for a 65 amp wet cell? My 1990 Chevy half ton truck's wet cell battery is reading a steady 12.2V - no fancy electronics to draw juice from this puppy, just storage losses to worry about. I've never had a problem with it and had one battery last over 8 years before I just got nervous and replaced it.

So, the charger/converter should do nothing unless it gets 110V AC input right? The alternator can provide a direct charge (i.e., it has it's own charger)? Seems like the Wizard isn't all that smart afterall - why not have a sleep mode (LED off) when neither an AC or DC charging source is present? Afterall, what's the point of trying to monitor to set the charging mode if you can't charge. Maybe storage mode works like a monitor mode in order to kick-in to the proper mode when a charging source does become available. I'll try to hook-up with the vendor and let you know what they say.

SMB put a push-button jump start in the driver's cab area in the corner near the top of the windshield. If I understand it correctly, the Automatic Charger Relay (aka, separator) provides this feature. Again, I'll try to hook-up with the vendor to see how it does this and also makes automated decisions about when to connect and disconnect the starter and house battery banks.

I did not get a radio system upgrade like most folks, so there is no relay switch installed for that, but I suppose the OEM radio pre-sets and clock could pull some juice even when "off" as you mentioned Dave. That is probably the case for other memory functions in the Ford van too, such as the emmissions system, dimmer switch, and maybe one other I can't remember the Ford manual says must be "re-learned" if the starter battery is disconnected. This would be the down-side to installing a kill switch for the starter battery system. Looks like a PITA to re-set, re-calibrate, re-learn, etc. As I recall, one function takes 10 miles of driving before it is re-learned. I'm thinking about the idea of changing from a wet cell to another AGM. I guess that decision is going to take more info on just how much draw-down the van is pulling from the starting battery and how much my driving habits and shore power charging habits will help recover. I'll post back in a couple weeks after I get a chance to do more research. Please weigh in with other data if you can help.

Thanks!

[daveb]

________________________________________

Originally Posted by joey2cool

I'd like to hook to shore power as little as possible since it's one more thing to do. However, I also want to take real good care of my batteries.

I keep my van plugged whenever the refrigerator is running even though I have solar. The reason I plug in is because I don’t want to cycle the batteries at night with the load being pulled. If the refrigerator is off I let the solar do it's thing and leave the charger off. Before a trip or every now and then I activate the charger. I always try to keep the batteries up in cloudy weather with the 3 stage charger if the refrigerator or other items are on in the van and do a quick charge after camping if overcast.

Originally Posted by joey2cool

Blue Sea Automatic Charger Relay is cold to the touch.

It will always feel cold because it only activates for a fraction of a second to operate. It’s a great separator that SMB just began to install.

Originally Posted by joey2cool

InteliPower 9160A Converter/Charger is also cold to the touch. InteliPower Charger Wizard is flashing green LED once every 8 seconds (storage mode).

I really can’t comment on your converter because I’ve never looked at that model. I would think it will be cold because you’re not plugged into shore power. Converters only convert AC to DC and usually have a DC charger built in. Personally I don’t like converters as chargers because most put voltages out similar to many alternators but the charge wizard is supposed to mock a multi-stage charge I believe. I’m not too sure how well charge wizards work especially over a long period. I doubt that the monitor light and circuitry pulls much but the manufacture could advise you. Maybe somebody else on the site can chime in. I would look into a good 3 stage charger or a good solar controller and panel. You don’t need several panels for battery maintenance but stay away from those cheap panels and controllers.

Originally Posted by joey2cool

Van starting battery leveled off at 12.4V and holding steady. Ok for a wet cell? My 1990 Chevy half ton truck is reading a steady 12.2V - no fancy electronics to draw juice from this puppy, just storage losses to worry about. I've never had a problem with it and had one battery last over 8 years before I just got nervous and replaced it.

Batteries are also very subject to cold temperatures and you might be seeing that, plus many factory batteries come damaged from the dealership as well. 12.4 is OK after the float voltage is gone but really it would be better to see a slightly higher level. The best way to test a battery is using load vs. time (like using a carbon pile tester) and voltage reads but a hydrometer can be used to on wet cell batteries that can be opened. Normally when batteries are difficult to get to the load test is best and many starting batteries are sealed anyway.

Originally Posted by joey2cool

So, the charger/converter should do nothing unless it gets 110V AC input right? The alternator can provide a direct charge (i.e., it has it's own charger)? Seems like the Wizard isn't all that smart afterall - why not have a fourth mode to go to sleep when AC is not present? Afterall, what's the point of trying to monitor for proper charging mode selection if you can't charge.

Yep but like I said I really don’t know how effective a wizard is or whether or not it pulls much. But even a minimal current drain can take down batteries over a period of time and if you rely on the alternator to charge up, the life of the batteries will be less. Car batteries are no big thing…replace a 80 dollar battery every few years. Twin 4D batteries at 400 bucks a piece; that’s another story.

Originally Posted by joey2cool

SMB put a push-button jump start in the driver's cab area in the corner near the top of the windshield. If I understand it correctly, the Automatic Charger Relay (aka, separator) provides this feature.

Yes the relay has a switch on top that lets you completely separate the batteries, solidly combine the batteries, or set to normal automatic operation. The Push button SMB installs is only a feature that keeps you from having to go back to the separator and manually operate it to jump start the vehicle. It also keeps you from forgetting to switch the relay back to normal after being stressed out trying the start up the engine. After being frustrated people tend to make more mistakes. Leaving the batteries combined could get you in deeper trouble.

Originally Posted by joey2cool

I did not get a radio system upgrade like most folks, so there is no relay switch installed, but I suppose the OEM radio pre-sets and clock could pull some juice even when "off" as you mentioned Dave. That is probably the case for other memory functions in the Ford van too, such as the emmissions system, dimmer switch, and maybe one other I can't remember the Ford manual says must be "re-learned" if the starter battery is disconnected. This would be the down-side to installing a kill switch for the starter battery system. Looks like a PITA to re-calibrate, re-learn, etc. As I recall, one function takes 10 miles of driving before it is re-learned. I'm thinking about the idea of changing from a wet cell to another AGM. I guess that decision is going to take more info on just how much draw-down the van is pulling from the starting battery and how much my driving habits and shore power charging habits will help recover. I'll post back in a couple weeks after I get a chance to do more research. Please weigh in with other data if you can help.

That’s the bad thing about computer controlled vehicles. And yes I think an amp draw from the stock radio is there. I keep a maintenance charger hooked to my starting batteries on the vehicles I don’t drive much. You should do an amp check to determine what you need. Overall, if you keep your AGM batteries separated from the starting system while the van sits (which is what the Blue Sea magnetic relay will automatically do), all you have to worry about is the starting battery and driving it on a regular weekly basis should work. But for good battery health, a 3 stage charger is recommended by most experts. Maybe the charge wizard is good enough to peak the house batteries once a month but bringing the up to full charge after cycling (after a night camping) is very important and you might want to look into a 3 stage inverter/charger even if it’s a small 500 watt model that can charge while you’re driving. Or think about solar.

If you go back to my article, there are several links to good sites that explain 12 volt systems. One is called the 12 volt side of life and it’s in two parts if I remember correctly. It’s a little out dated but good info. Another is Arizona wind/sun.
Good luck, I’m sure it will all come together for you.
Post back on what you find.
Dave