Van wouldn't start from house battery (via isolator) today.

[daveb]

Oops ....Finally found it. I had it somewhere on the PC. The voltage it needs is 3V.

BATTERY SEPARATOR
The Smart Solenoid
The BATTERY SEPARATOR is designed for use in multi-battery applications as a solenoid
priority system to protect the chassis charging system from excessive loading while allowing
auxiliary batteries to be charged. The BATTERY SEPARATOR has two basic operational
characteristics:
ASSIST IN ENGINE STARTING
When the starter is activated the BATTERY SEPARATOR compares the voltage of both battery
banks. If the chassis’ battery is lower than the auxiliary battery bank, the BATTERY SEPARATOR
will engage allowing the auxiliary battery bank to aid in vehicle starting. The start signal must be at
least three volts for the operation to occur.PROTECT THE CHARGING SYSTEM
The BATTERY SEPARATOR monitors the battery system to determine if the batteries are being
charged. When the engine or auxiliary batteries (if 1315-200 is used), or the engine batteries (if
1314-200 is used) reach 13.2 volts*, indicating charging is taking place, the BATTERY
SEPARATOR will engage, joining the two battery banks. If the drain on the charging system by the
auxiliary or main battery bank reduces the system voltage below 12.8 volts*, the BATTERY
SEPARATOR will disconnect the battery banks from each other, thus protecting the respective
battery banks from excessive drain.
A delay function has been incorporated in the control circuit to prevent the BATTERY
SEPARATOR from reacting to momentary voltage fluctuations and chattering.
The priorities are to assist in engine starting, if required, and to protect the charging system from
excessive power drain.
10189 SW Avery • Tualatin OR 97062 • (503) 692-5360 • (503) 692-9091 FAX • http://www.surepower.com
MODEL 1314-200
This unit will activate
only when the Main
Battery System exceeds
13.2 volts*.
MODEL 1315-200
This unit will activate only
when either the Main or
Auxiliary Battery System
exceeds 13.2 volts*.
Sure Power Industries Battery Separator Model 1314-200/1315-200
Battery Separator Installation Instructions
1. Mount the Battery Separator in a convenient location near the main battery bank. Do not mount in direct engine
heat. Drill 7/32” holes for ¼-20 self-threading screws and lock washer. For material less than 0.10” add a washer
and nut (not included).
2. Connect one end of a new wire of the proper size (see wire size chart) to the main battery terminal of the Battery
Separator.
3. Connect the opposite end of a wire installed in step #2 to the main battery positive (+) terminal.
4. Connect one end of wire of proper size (see wire size chart) to the auxiliary battery terminal of the Battery
Separator.
5. Connect the opposite end of the wire installed in step #4 to the auxiliary battery positive (+) terminal.
6. Make sure the auxiliary battery is properly grounded to the vehicle chassis.
7. Ground Connection. Connect a #14 gauge wire between chassis ground and the Battery Separator ground
terminal. This may momentarily activate the Battery Separator. This is normal.
8. Auxiliary Start Connection (optional). Automatic operation. Connect a #14 gauge wire from the start position of
the ignition switch to the Start terminal of the Battery Separator. Make this connection at the ignition switch. This
wire should only have voltage when the ignition switch is in the start position. Note: The start signal must be able
to produce at least 3V* in order to provide automatic boost, see connection diagram above for manual operation
option.
9. Lamp Connections (optional). Connect a #14 gauge wire from the Lamp terminal of the Battery Separator to one
end of an indicator lamp (250mA maximum current draw). Connect the opposite end of the lamp to the chassis
ground. This lamp will illuminate when the auxiliary start function is activated.
10. Checking the Operation: The Battery Separator should now be operational. Start the vehicle or apply a charge
to the main battery. Once the main battery rises to 13.2V* the Battery Separator should activate. Turn off the
vehicle or remove the charge to the main battery. The Battery Separator should disconnect the auxiliary battery
once the voltage on the main battery drops below 12.8V*.
11. If a model 1315-200 is used, apply a charge to the auxiliary battery. When auxiliary voltage rises above 13.2V*,
the Battery Separator should activate. Remove charging unit, the Battery Separator should open when auxiliary
battery is less than 12.8V*.
12. The auxiliary start function should activate the Battery Separator if the main battery voltage is lower than the
auxiliary battery. The start terminal must see at least 3V* to activate. The auxiliary battery must read at least
10V*.Recommended Battery Separator Wire Size Chart
Wire Length Wire Gauge if using Auxiliary Start Wire Gauge if not using Auxiliary Start
up to 10 feet 4 gauge 8 gauge
10 to 20 feet 2 gauge 6 gauge
* Typical voltage settings have ± 2% tolerance. File 180126A 6/04
Auxiliary
Battery
Main
Battery
- + - +
Main
Loads
Auxiliary
Loads
Auxiliary Start
Indicator Light
For Automatic Operation
Connect to Start Posistion of
Ignition Switch (see step 8)
For Manual Operation
Connect as Shown Here
Momentary Boost
Switch Mount
on Dash
Auxiliary Start Activation
Optional Connections
AUX. MAIN

[geoffff]

Cool! Here's the actual PDF file of the above... http://www.surepower.com/pdf/180126A.pdf.

-- Geoff

[Angel]

daveb,

What model of the BlueSea separator is SMB going to install? Peter just told me he could not get one till the end of April but I failed to get the model #. There are several dealers in my area and I want to see if I can get one and take it to SMB and have them install it April 26th.

Angel

[daveb]

Angel, I ordered the ML-7622. http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/388 SMB is reluctant to install this relay because it has an override switch. But for me I want this option. The problem is that with an override feature, SMB believes that people might leave the chassis battery system connected to the house system which could cause you to kill both systems leaving you stranded. I might rig the switch up with a Key lock (and indicator if the supplied switch does not Illuminate) to guard against that.

Dave.

[geoffff]

Using a mirror I see that I do indeed have a separator -- Sure Power Model 1315.



The instructions are a bit confusing to me, but as daveb points out, I think the key issue was point 12: my start terminal voltage was less than 3V. Next time I should use the "Manual Operation" override.

Thanks, everyone!

-- Geoff

[jage]

Here is the one I went with, directly on John K's suggestion:
http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/389

This also comes with an override.

Funny about SMB's attitude... the way my start wire was engaging the separator at every crank I was left with a dead starter and house battery, and I never even knew I was killing one with the other at every start, so in the end there was nothing to engage anyway.

[geoffff]

Originally Posted by jage

the way my start wire was engaging the separator at every crank I was left with a dead starter and house battery, and I never even knew I was killing one with the other at every start, so in the end there was nothing to engage anyway.

Does it really kill the house battery? Or is it just temporarily connecting the two batteries?

For instance, the Sure Power unit's documentation (http://www.surepower.com/pdf/180126A.pdf) says to connect to the "Start Position of Ignition Switch".

-- Geoff

[etbadger]

The way the Surepower is installed in our van (similar vintage to yours Geoff), is that when the ignition is on the battery banks are forced to be joined regardless of voltage, not just during cranking or alternator charging.

This can be good or bad, pending usage. (I would lean towards bad.) If your engine battery is bad and sucking down all the power of the alternator it will also suck down the house batteries while driving. It will, however allow you to continue driving longer than otherwise if your alternator is not charging (say a broken serpentine belt).

As we are rebuilding a bunch of stuff in our van we are switching over to a low-draw seperator (Blue-Sea or Ample-Power or the like), that will only join on charging from either side, with a manual switch to do a join for cranking/jumping/running the van battery. We will not do an automatic join on ignition as this can mask problems till they contaminate both battery banks.

-e

[Ford_6L_E350]

et,

You can remove the wire from the SurePower 'Start Assist' terminal. Then the two battery systems are isolated until one is charged above ~13.2V and will start charging the other battery system.

My 'Start Assist' has never been connected. If I hooked it up at all it would be through a switch so I could decide when to connect the two systems.

Mike

[etbadger]

Originally Posted by Ford_6L_E350

et,

You can remove the wire from the SurePower 'Start Assist' terminal. Then the two battery systems are isolated until one is charged above ~13.2V and will start charging the other battery system.

My 'Start Assist' has never been connected. If I hooked it up at all it would be through a switch so I could decide when to connect the two systems.

Mike

Yep, we've already done that. Actually is a 3-position switch setup for: never join, join always, & join on charging.