How much could a homebuilt SMB be worth?

[jtolittle]

Hello,
I am ready to transform my 2000 E350 quigley into a homebuild SMB. But before I was wondering how much it could be worth once completed. I am really planning to take the time I need to make it the best I can. I am expecting to get close to what Spurious did (will be hard, he has such a nice rig!)
the van will be:
-2000 E350 7.3 PSD Quigley
-190000 miles
-new front end parts
-RB 50 floor plan
-homebuilt penthouse top
-sink
-norcold fridge
-water heater
-shower
-XL storage
-front and rear custom bumpers

I figured once I am done, I will have $25000-27000 into the van for everything.
If I were to sell it, could I expect to get close to what I have invested in it?
thanks
JT

[jage]

Short answer: no.

I'd say that depends on two things- second more than the first:

1. mileage: you're starting with higher mileage, arguably 2/3 of the life of the 7.3 is up and any of the remaining 1/3 you drive out before selling just makes it worse.

2. how nice is it: you can buy $25,000 of materials but if you can't cut a straight line or make an edge look nice... a good woodworker can make plywood look like a million bucks, but more often than not the opposite of that is true. You have to find a buyer who's taste level is below your craftsmanship- if you don't have good craftsmanship (or you're not honest about your skills) then it might be hard to find a buyer at the price you want.

Any particular reason you're married to this van as your starting point?

[jtolittle]

There is no reason I am married to THIS van in particular. I was looking for a diesel van 4x4 and came across this one.I know how expensive they are and I wasn't planning on buying anything but this one was a good deal, so I got it. And there is my chance to build myself a SMB or should I say a custom 4x4 camper van!
So what price RANGE roughly would you be ready to pay for such a vehicle (depensing on the finish work I understand..)?
Just trying to get an estimate from people here who know. The van itself without quigley is only $5000 at KBB....So I know I wouldn't make money if I were to sell it but I can't find any resource to price it, besides that forum hopefully!!
JT

[GreyDawg]

I figure that my homebrew, based on a 2006 RB E350 passenger van, is worth (and will be worth in the future):

• the market value of a cargo 2006 E350 of the same mileage and engine (I removed the seats)[/*:m:20vk5c0y]
• a bit more for the added electric system (separator, 4D AGM battery underneath, and a few more 12 plugs)[/*:m:20vk5c0y]
• a raised roof if I add one[/*:m:20vk5c0y]

and that's it. Why? Because my camperization (no propane, no fridge) is unique to me and my situation. Sure, there may be a buyer who wants exactly what I've done, but more than likely the buyer will want to remove all of my interior stuff except the Allure floor, and do their own interior -- whether for camping or dog shows or hauling mountain bicycles or ...

Look at homebrew vans for sale on eBay -- they come up occasionally -- and you'll see that they sell for about the value of the van. And some don't sell at all.

[Sierrasclimber]

I considered doing a home build van but for the money it is just a really big loser unless you plan to have the vehicle for a decade. The problem is you are mostly buying and installing new equipment into a used vehicle. I believe the only way you come out ok is if you use a near new vehicle (gas with less than 30k miles or D with less than 60k). If you do this conversion you need to go planning for a near total loss. My hunch of it's value would be about $10-$15k tops when you are finished. $15k if done well. I really doubt much more given the milage price might depend on market. I think some markets are more tolerant of high milage. There was someone in Morro Bay with a SMB converted diesil van with 200k who tried to sell it for $18k for a least a year. Don't know if it ever sold.

The big item is you are asking the wrong question. If you think you are going to convert this as a project and make money. Forget it sell the van. If you want an SMB the real question is what would rather spend $33-$45 for a good used 4x4 SMB or the hours of work and $25k for a used self converted SMBish van. If converted after 5 year 2015; your van would be 15 years old with 225k at least on it. The value would probably be $8-$12 at that point. A comprible 15 year old SMB would with less than 100k on it would probably be work $25-$35. Ask anyone on the Board used SMBs are great deal. If you want a new SMB you better really want it or not care how much value it looses in the first two years.

These are off the pre-owned site of SMB

1996 Ford EB E350/460 4x4
VIN#: HA36210
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA
Miles: 42,000

PH w/Bed, AM/FM/CD, Propane Stove, Sink, New Refrigerator, Microwave, Starcool A/C, Furnace, New Generator, Hoop Steps, New Tires, Aluminum Wheels, Sleeps 4, Seats 6
$33,500

Van 2005 Ford E-350 4WD
Miles 15,000 Price $45,000
Engine 6.0L Diesel
Seats 5 Sleeps 2
Cabinets Grey Interior Grey
Top Voyager Interior Height 6"

Owner Maznio
Possession Sportsmobile North Also included: Marine Deck Flooring, 3 cu.ft. refrigerator, Furnace, stove, Quigleys 4WD, Hitch, Attic Fan,Da-nite Shades.

Van 2004 Ford EB 4WD
Miles 68,000 Price $45,000
Engine 6.0L Diesel
Cabinets Grey Interior Grey
Top Penthouse Interior Height 6" 10"

Owner Meza
Possession Owner / Sussex, NJ Also included: Grey Carpet, 3 cu.ft. refrigerator, microwave, Starcool A/C, 2000 Watt Invertor, 2 extra batteries, Penthouse bed, Hoop Steps,
Quigley 4WD, Flat Screen TV, Extra DVD player, Yakima Racks, Fog Lights, porta potti.
Van 2003 Ford EB Sportsmobile 4x4
Miles 64,300 Price $ 55,900.00
Engine 7.3 L Diesel
Seats 5 Sleeps 4
Cabinets Off White Interior Tan
Top Penthouse Top Interior Height 6'10"

Owner Reid
Possession Sportsmobile Texas
Also Includes: Marine Vinyl, Carpet Overlay, Day/Nite Shades, 4 cf Refrigerator, 12,000 BTU Furnace, 6 Gallon LPG Water Heater, Microwave, 2000 Watt Inverter, Custom Audio With Navigation, HI-Idle Kit, Sportsmobile 4x4, New Shocks, Wheel Tires, Front Bumper With Lights, 9500 LB Winch, Rear Bumper With Lights, Tire Bracket, Storage Box on bumper and Through Floor Inside Van, Class III Hitch.

[GreyDawg]

Sierrasclimber makes very good points.

I'm doing a homebrew because:

• I want something pretty simple[/*:m:1bb6mty6]
• I'm enjoying doing the work[/*:m:1bb6mty6]
• I want to feel free to change my mind and reconfigure in a couple of years.[/*:m:1bb6mty6]
• I might want, say, a purple interior this year, and orange in 2012... [/*:m:1bb6mty6]

Would I buy a homebrew from someone else? Probably not. I'd have absolutely no idea of how well the electrical or propane work was done -- or the insulation, for that matter. All I'd be able to see would be the superficial construction. Furthermore, I'd have no fall-back if I needed some service. We know SMB (and GTRV and PleasureWay and Vanagon and Eurovan) construction standards, and if something breaks or needs service, you can either contact the manufacturer or do it on your own.

Oh, and there's the issue in some states about having an RVIA sticker to register as a motorhome.

You make a homebrew for the fun of doing it, not for financial gain.

Now, for insurance purposes: I'm keeping track of how much I've spent on my homebrew, and at some point I will talk to my insurance agent about whether we can up the replacement cost of my rig to cover my "improvements."

[jtolittle]

I never had the intention to convert it into a camper and resale it right away with the hope of making money. (i do that with boats and it takes me already enough of my free time!!).
I love building stuff and that's why i will spend the time working on my van. I was just wondering that if in 5 years I want to sell it because I will have the ability to buy a new one ( ), will I be able to expect to get near what I spent.
Thanks to all your answers, it looks like I shouldn't even consider it!!
So never mind, let's just build the van for the fun of it and use it until it dies!!
In French we have a saying "when you love, you don't count the cost"...so let's go for it!
thank you for your input

[Zaskoda]

I think someone might stand a chance of building a home brew machine and turning a profit. Just trying to be optimistic here, that's all. Maybe if they accomplish the following:

- Good deal on a good van. This was my first big pitfall, I bought a rig that needed too many repairs. However, whoever buys it from me will probably end up with a straight van for a good price.

- Cheap source of materials. I've been running numbers on propane systems, water systems, and electrical systems. That stuff is not cheap! But what if you can find the right source of used parts? I'm hoping to find a camper van or popup trailer with good parts being dumped for some unrelated reason like structural damage. There are also other good sources for cheap parts and materials like salvage yards and Craig's List.

- Be a clever engineer. I like to think I'm clever, but I know people have been building these camper vans for a long time. Still, I'm really inspired by posts I read on this very forum. Sometimes people have just the right knowledge to come up with a clever new solution to a problem.

- Be a quality engineer. Whatever you build, regardless of how clever, will depend on your craftsmanship. What if you're actually pretty good at building stuff?

- Meet a broad range of desirables. It seems like the "50" floorplan meets a lot of needs. So whatever you build, be mindful of building something that will work for a variety of needs.

I think that would do it... I think you might squeeze our a small profit that way... that would probably fail to pay minimum wage on the hours you put into it.

But I bet you'd still feel pretty good about doing it.

[bettyford]

I too am doing a home build. its going well. Im a big guy and I didnt like any of the SMB interior's I wanted a big soft bed and we don't cook in my unit. infact the only time my wife and I spend in the van is driving, reading at night or sleeping. so Simple is better for us. Bed,Cabinets and a good cooler. I am now installing my pop top and I will be done. sort of I don't think I will ever stop adding to it.

My wife and I love this SMB gig we have a blast camping and exploring. So that makes it priceless. I will be selling this van only because we want an extended and a 7.3.

I think you should build your van how ever you want it enjoy it and never look back. As far as the resale Value goes well Who knows. once you replace all the brake lines and make sure the stuff other than the motor is good you probably will not want to sell it.

Enjoy

Ron