Comfortable towing with E250

[dhally]

Looking for experiences with towing a toy hauler with an RB E250. We have a high top, 5.4 liter engine, and 4.11 ratio rear end. We weigh under 8000 lb, so a trailer weight of 5,000 lb keeps us within spec. Max trailer weight spec is like 7500 lb.

We want a toy hauler to fit a queen size bed, a couple ebikes, and occasionally a motorcycle or 2. We would still use the kitchen in the van.

Single axle vs. dual axle?
how big/heavy is practical? We want to go down the road OK and access some semi-rough camp sites. We would still take the van alone sometimes.

[TheLetterJ]

I regularly tow a smaller toy hauler behind my 5.4 powered (and I use that term loosely!) EB E350. Combined weight right around 15k lbs most of the time which includes 46g of water, 3-5 motorcycles (3 in the trailer, 2 in the van), firewood, 4 people, dog, etc. It's not fast, but it gets it done.

The goal with the toy hauler was to only get as big as necessary to keep my family comfortable if we were to get stuck inside for a few days (as had happened once when desert camping in our previous travel trailer and we got snowed in) while still being small enough to take down most forest roads and unmaintained desert roads. For me, that meant narrow (7' wide) body, low roof (which is still pretty tall compared to my standard roof van) and the shortest overhangs we could get away with. Dual axles ride smoother over ruts/holes/bumps and keep the axles closer to the ends (better approach/departure angles) compared to a single axle trailer of the same length.

I'd been looking for a specific model to show up on the used market and a member on this forum sent me a link to one within like 8 minutes of it popping up (thanks Jin!) and it was mine that night! Our toy hauler is a Carson Outlaw 7x17 (exactly the same as a Carson Rebel X, it's actually shorter front to back than my EB) with dual queen sized electric drop down beds and a convertible sofa (twin? full?... weird rv size?) I'm 6'5" and can just barely stand up inside... as long as I'm not under the ac or a light fixture. Carson toy haulers are definitely at the cheaper end of the spectrum, but it fit the bill for us perfectly. If I weren't so cheap, I'd have been looking more seriously at an ATC aluminum build of similar size.

We also had a 6x10 cargo trailer with a partial rv/toy hauler conversion (home built) that was awesome for us for many years. If you're still using the van for cooking and some of the "living" space, and access to more off-the-beaten-path places is a higher priority for you, a small cargo trailer conversion could be a better route to go?

[carringb]

My brother has one of these, and it’s worked out very well. Empty is around 4,000 pounds, and there’s enough ground clearance for Forest Service roads.

https://forestriverinc.com/rvs/wolf-pup/18RJBW/9396

[dhally]

I did see a Carson Rebel X 17 foot but the cargo would need to be unloaded to sleep. I couldn't find much information online about Carson.

I've seen several Wolf Pups. They are the lightest ones. The used ones I have seen only have full size beds not queen. The newer ones do have queens. They seem to be the "right size" and weight.

I forgot to add it has to be cheap... Finding an older unit and remodeling might be fun, or converting a cargo trailer. Although it's hard to find a lightweight used cargo trailer too. Plenty of 7x14 7000 GVWR ones around.

[Steve Hunt]

I bought a Pace 20' when I was motorcycle road racing and probably put 100,000 miles on it behind a Chevy Dually over 15 years. I had Pace insulate the roof, walls and floor, install the flush E-track and then i built out the rest. Fold down bunk, 30 amp AC power distribution panel since shore power was always available, rooftop Air Conditioner, 18' awning on the side etc etc. Loaded out it weighed with 2 track bikes and gear about 5000lbs. One thing i would have done different is I would have gotten 2-5000 lbs axles rather than the 2-3500lbs. Just because they built out the fender wells differently because they used different tire sizes and i didn't realize at the time what crap tires I was restricted to with the setup that came with the 2-3500lb axles. The setup with the 5000lb axles had more ground clearance too...I routinely drug the tail even leaving driveways and gas stations. I also would have gone 7' wide rather than the 8' wide I bought. The 8 ft wide is nice for all things other than it grabs a lot of extra wind and you can feel it constantly (and it negatively affects gas mileage). My buddy bought 7' wide and we routinely swapped who drove on every other trip and there was a big difference. I got the extended "A" frame and it was very nice for making U-turns or tight backing, I would consider it strongly. The aero bubbles on the front seem like they would help mpg but they don't on a cargo trailer.

Just some stuff to think about.

[dhally]

Originally Posted by Steve Hunt

I bought a Pace 20' when I was motorcycle road racing and probably put 100,000 miles on it behind a Chevy Dually over 15 years. I had Pace insulate the roof, walls and floor, install the flush E-track and then i built out the rest. Fold down bunk, 30 amp AC power distribution panel since shore power was always available, rooftop Air Conditioner, 18' awning on the side etc etc. Loaded out it weighed with 2 track bikes and gear about 5000lbs. One thing i would have done different is I would have gotten 2-5000 lbs axles rather than the 2-3500lbs. Just because they built out the fender wells differently because they used different tire sizes and i didn't realize at the time what crap tires I was restricted to with the setup that came with the 2-3500lb axles. The setup with the 5000lb axles had more ground clearance too...I routinely drug the tail even leaving driveways and gas stations. I also would have gone 7' wide rather than the 8' wide I bought. The 8 ft wide is nice for all things other than it grabs a lot of extra wind and you can feel it constantly (and it negatively affects gas mileage). My buddy bought 7' wide and we routinely swapped who drove on every other trip and there was a big difference. I got the extended "A" frame and it was very nice for making U-turns or tight backing, I would consider it strongly. The aero bubbles on the front seem like they would help mpg but they don't on a cargo trailer.

Just some stuff to think about.

That's sort of what I'm thinking too, just wondering if the extra weight of the tandem axles is worth the stability for a 7x14 hopefully under 5000 lb most of the time. I'm thinking a flat front trailer would be fine, maybe put a toolbox on the tongue.

[Steve Hunt]

Originally Posted by dhally

That's sort of what I'm thinking too, just wondering if the extra weight of the tandem axles is worth the stability for a 7x14 hopefully under 5000 lb most of the time. I'm thinking a flat front trailer would be fine, maybe put a toolbox on the tongue.

You would want to be a little more mindful of how you loaded it so your tongue weight is right but a 7x14 with a single 5000lb axle may be worth considering.
If you go enough miles you’re going to get flats just from shear exposure. I would plan to carry two spares. I learned about spare tire anxiety after getting a flat just 20 miles into the start of a trip and then had 1000 miles to go with no spare. Over the years I had maybe 3-4 flats on the trailer…very uneventful on a double axle from a stability standpoint. Uneventful is very good!!

[dhally]

Originally Posted by Steve Hunt

You would want to be a little more mindful of how you loaded it so your tongue weight is right but a 7x14 with a single 5000lb axle may be worth considering.
If you go enough miles you’re going to get flats just from shear exposure. I would plan to carry two spares. I learned about spare tire anxiety after getting a flat just 20 miles into the start of a trip and then had 1000 miles to go with no spare. Over the years I had maybe 3-4 flats on the trailer…very uneventful on a double axle from a stability standpoint. Uneventful is very good!!

Yes, spares, jacks, and wrenches are all good to have.

I am leery of the single axle - we had an older travel trailer with single axle and it was very sensitive to balance.

[SMB123]

4.11 and 5.4 is only part of the equation. How tall are the tires?

I have thousands of miles of towing from popup trailers to toy haulers.

How much distance ? If under 200 miles you have a lot of latitude.

Being near limit * time results in a white knuckle experience which is not fun or relaxing and is in fact more taxing than any benefit derived.

Based on these same circumstances, I might consider one of those neat cargo trailers that people convert to sleepers. You could put a murphy bed in a nice vnose trailer, add a window or two and a convertible sofa and you have a toy hauler with creature comforts and some storage for toys and tools. Super light and easy to tow.

[dhally]

Originally Posted by SMB123

4.11 and 5.4 is only part of the equation. How tall are the tires?

I have thousands of miles of towing from popup trailers to toy haulers.

How much distance ? If under 200 miles you have a lot of latitude.

Being near limit * time results in a white knuckle experience which is not fun or relaxing and is in fact more taxing than any benefit derived.

Based on these same circumstances, I might consider one of those neat cargo trailers that people convert to sleepers. You could put a murphy bed in a nice vnose trailer, add a window or two and a convertible sofa and you have a toy hauler with creature comforts and some storage for toys and tools. Super light and easy to tow.

Our van has stock suspension and tires, so 245/75-R16 I think. I'm sure it will go up the hills maybe in 2nd gear, I am more worried about drivability, braking, and stability. I don't know how far we'll go. For sure up into the local mountains up to 200 miles. But if we like towing, we might decide to take it to the East Coast to explore National Parks. With our big bed and ebikes.