Best tire choice??

[E350]

The 2007 Salem-Kroger 4x4 conversion of my 2002 E350 7.3 extended van included the following Toyo's:

Open Country A/T LT265/70R17 121/118S E/10 * 301390 7.0-8.0-8.5 31.6 10.6 16 3195 658 46.5

which I use for Summer driving in No. CA (which includes this Winter). I have a separate set of wheels with studded big lug snow tires (big lugs clean powder snow better than smaller lugs, in my experience).

I have broken belts on the front Toyo's with resulting tire bulges.

We put Michellin LTX MS2's on my wife's Dodge Dakota beginning of this Winter. They are the best tire I have ever driven. The siping for ice/snow is incredible and they don't cake up and slick up with powder snow. They are also supposed to get high mileage (~70K miles), which seems impossible for a tire which performs so well in the snow. I plan to put them on my Bronco. I also plan to put them on my E350 4x4:

LTX® M/S2 14221 LT265/70R17/E 121 R BSW 70,000 7" - 8.5" 10.7" on 8" 31.7 13.5 3195@80 657 46.58

You'll notice that the load per single tire is identical between the Michelin and the Toyo. This is important. I took my van to a scale on the way back from a trip to Canada just to weigh it and found that it weighed 10,960 lbs. I haven't weighed the front vs the back yet (I will because I am planning on buying Bilstein shocks soon), but I would bet all of you that at least 6,000 lbs. is over the front tires, given the weight of the 7.3 diesel engine. Exceeding the load weight of a tire causes heat and tread separation and broken belts and bulges which could result in a blow out.

[BTW, FYI, IMO, "Death Wobble" is caused by one tire (e.g., the left) hitting a bump and pushing through the tie rod up against the rubber sidewall (which is, effectively, an undampened spring - it is rubber filled with air after all -- you know how a rubber basketball filled with air bounces?) of the right tire causing a "bump steer" to the right resulting in a reaction of the right sidewall springing/pushing back through the tie rod to the rubber sidewall of the left tire which repeats with increased violence until the vehicle stops or nearly stops rolling. In my experience of chasing DW down, it has nothing to do with the track bar, ball joints, or caster. It is merely an undampened spring (with the air-filled rubber sidewalls of the two front tires being the springs). After avoiding DW for only one year after $3,000 of front end work, at TurboStew's suggestion (see his posts on this forum), I installed dual opposing Bilstein gas pressurized SHOCKS (not stabilizers) using a Rough Country dual stabilizer bracket and haven't had a DW since. The opposing gas pressurized shocks push against each other thereby cancelling each other out and, thus, do not put any pressure on the steering box while an opposing dual stabilizer set up (a stabilizer has resistence both pushing in and pullling out) would create tremendous resistence on the steering box (possibly causing premature wear and looseness). (FYI, in chasing down DW I tightened up my steering box and the DW actually got worse! I.e., I increased the effectiveness of the bump steer!) In summary, you wouldn't drive your van without vertical shocks at each wheel to dampen the sprung mass of the body, so why would you drive your van without horizontal shocks connecting the tie rod to the differential to dampen the horizontal spring effect of the rubber on those big sidewalled tires you are putting on the front of your van? Finally, anyone who says that dual opposing gas pressurized shocks as a steering stabilizer are just "masking" the underlying problem is . . . mistaken . . . For those of you who believe that . . . , please take off the vertical shocks at each of the four wheels on your van and see if you like driving it while it bounces uncontrolably up and down without the benefit of "masking" which the vertical shocks provide by dampening the vertically sprung mass of your van's body.]

[JoeH]

E350, I'm trying to gurgitate the gist of your post. First of all, I think you're pushing your luck with a tire that is loaded rated 3200 pounds with 6000 lbs over your front axel. Running those tires at 80 psi has got to shake your teeth out.

Are you implying going to bigger tires (with more rubber between rim and ground) leads to increasing chances of Death Wobble unless you counteract the forces with shocks?

[E350]

JoeH, I agree that I am pushing my luck. But 3,195 lbs. is the highest load range I can find for that odd-ball 17" rim that the converter put on my van. And I have 9 of them remember? (I.e., 4 all terrain and 4 snow tires and a spare).

And I just recently moved the Auragen generator cpu, the Prosine 3000 inverter, and the Xantrex solar charge controller from under the bed (over the rear axle) towards the middle of the vehicle under the Engel frig which is behind the driver's seat. So more weight is moving forward. However, it handles better with that weight between the axles. But even if the static weight was split exactly between the two axles (at 5,480 lbs. ea.) how much load moves to the front wheels when I am braking, or better yet braking going downhill on a 5-7% grade pulling a 1-yard tandem cement mixer? (And then get DW and need to stop rather soon. Yes, that happened on Hwy 50 heading to Sacto. from Tahoe.)

I like the performance of the LTX MS2 on my wife's Dodge. But as I already mentioned, I have had belts break on the Toyos which are the same load range "E" as the LTX MS2's. So, your help and anyone else's suggestions for a heavier load range tire on a 17" rim would be greatly appreciated.

(I don't ride my tires at 80lbs. pressure by the way. It is less.)

[As far as whether or not increasing the sidewall height of the front tires by going to a bigger tire would increase the likelihood of DW or not, I prefer not to speculate. The internet is an echo chamber of misinformation. I have read lengthy posts by people who have never had Death Wobble telling other people who have it that it is their track bar or their ball joints or their caster -- even on brand new F350's! I already mentioned spending $3,000 with the 4x4 converter only to have the DW return in 2 years. The only thing that made it go away for a while was replacing the front tires with new ones (with half the tread left!). I then bought a used 600lb. SnapOn torque wrench and checked my track bar bushings myself. They were fine (they were only 2 years old after all). Then I found TurboStew's post on the opposing dual pressurized Bilstein shock absorber steering dampener set up and in a year since installing it, I have not had DW once. How much you want to bet that if I take it off I will have DW immediately again? IMO, there should be a moratorium on people who have never had DW from suggesting to others how to fix it.]

Again, any tire suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[JoeH]

I guess you know this but you're not getting anywhere close to the load rating of the tire running less pressure. Which is why they're falling apart?

There's not many e-rated tires for 17" rims that are not MTs but the Toyo Open Country AT's in a LT 285/75R 17 are 10 ply tires. 3750lb at 80psi.

http://www.onlinetires.com/products/veh ... l+10p.html

[86Scotty]

And they are great tires as well.

[E350]

JoeH and 86Scotty, I don't know enough about tires, so please assume I know nothing and tell me (and the others) as much as possible. That's why the original post caught my attention.

For instance, I did not know that running at a lower pressure effectively increased the load capacity but caused tire deterioration, assuming that I understood your post correctly. (BTW, although, I have broken belts on two tires in the five years since the coversion to 4x4, my tires do not otherwise seem to be deteoriorating, just the tread is wearing out.)

When I ran 80 psi cold all around it was like driving on ball bearings.

Because (if I remember right) the Ford Death Wobble TSB said run the tires at the pressure specified on the driver's side door jamb (which is 55 front and 80 rear) I started experimenting and ended up running 50 psi cold in the front and 60 psi cold in the rear, hoping that it would calm down the DW. Now that I have apparently solved the DW with the dual-opposing-gas-pressurized-shock-steering-stabilizer-set-up, I can afford to try running higher pressures, so I am very open to suggestions for tire pressure and tire make and model.

I will look into the wavy siped Toyo AT's you two suggested. The Michelin LTX MS2 has the same wavy type siping which on my wife's truck seems to hold so well on ice and snow.

Thank you. If you have the time guys, please keep sharing your knowledge.

[JoeH]

E350, I'm no tire expert either but the search function works really well on this site. There's a bunch of older threads that discuss 17" tire options.

I can tell you, however, that the load carrying capacity of a 80psi/3195lb tire at 50 psi is 2470 pounds. So, if you think you have 6000 pounds over your front axel that might be why your not getting the mileage out of the tires and they are prone to premature failure.

I would look for a tire with a load index of 124 or 127. Especially if you're towing a cement mixer

[E350]

JoeH, thanks, Buddy!

It will take a little time for me to research this deeper per your suggestion. If you have time, take a look at this thread later next week. I'll post my research results and maybe you can comment. Have a great weekend!

[Angel]

Originally, I got Toyo Open Country A/T 285/70/17E on a 9 in wide rim: 3750# @ 80psi. I found out that they were 2 ply sides and 6 or 8 ply on the bottom when I had to replace one because I got hole in the side.
At 37,000 miles I replaced them with the same Toyo A/T tires, only a slightly taller size: 285/75/17E which are 3 ply on the side and 10 ply on the bottom. I kept the best of the 285/70/17 size for a spare so I can still open only one door in the back if I want to.

I think they are not noisy and I am happy with them.

Angel

[seasmith]

Just some non-expert feedback and a query~

2007 E350 SMB conversion, on which the previous (Texas resident) owner had put ProComp Xtreme LT 315 75R 16" rubber (why with the 16" wheel, i haven't a clue) which, in TX sand/rock, where probably great; but in 3 months UT Springtime 2011 schlogging, they where underwhelming, when wet.
Now the front tires have puckered out and road noise is increasing, along with a possible approaching DW wobble.
The tires are chattering to the ears a confirmation of E350's opinion that a high width/hight (with inadequate sidewall strength) contributes to an harmonic wobble.
Anyway, the front tires have developed an uneven tread profile (apparently this tire is difficult to balance), and i'm looking for a better quality shoe.

Anybody running the BFG T-A KM2, or better ?

Thanks,
seasmith