Fixing Carolina Squat

[D1MA]

Hello everyone!

Need some help to make sure I don't make a series of bad decisions.

I thought my rear springs were done, which they were. I installed these 43-1041 thinking it would give me a 4" lift, I was wrong.

I saw another poster here that installed these Pro Comp 22415 and got 7" lift out of it. Should I get these instead?

The van rides/tows much better now.

I tow a 7k lb trailer, van squats down 1.25" when hit with a weight distribution hitch.


Van info:

2009 e150 with coils in the front, D60 F&R

Current tires are 265/70R17 (I think they're just under 32")

With the new springs, from the ground to the middle of the fender arch:
Front: 42"
Rear: 38.75"

I have a tapered 2.5" lift block in the rear right now.

To be flat F/R I'd need a 5.75" lift block.

With a 7" lift block I'd have 1.25" rake.

Since I already installed the new springs here are a few questions on my mind...

1. Can I get away with using higher lift blocks?
2. What kind of taper should I get on the new blocks if getting higher lift blocks for proper pinon angle?
3. How much rake is recommended?
4. Will I need to replace the shocks with higher lift blocks?
5. Will I need extended brake lines?
6. Should I get bags? What are some good options?

Please let me know if there's something that I'm not considering or if I can add any more relevant info.

Photos attached are of the old leaf springs/u bolts.

Thank you!

[Big_ern_101]

Can I get away with using higher lift blocks?
-5.75" is a lot of lift block. I wouldn't run it.

What kind of taper should I get on the new blocks if getting higher lift blocks for proper pinon angle?
-Need to measure existing pinion angle to determine what sort of adjustments you need. Can't provide an answer.

How much rake is recommended?
-I would prefer to be close to flat when fully loaded down. Use bags if needed to get the back end up. Dont forget to include things like water weight and gear in your calcs.

Will I need to replace the shocks with higher lift blocks?
-Yep. Don't want the shocks topped out.

Will I need extended brake lines?
-Probably. Need to look at existing.

Should I get bags? What are some good options?
-Bags are great especially if you have onboard air and tow.

I would go with some proper re-arched springs instead of blocks - a local shop can make them for you most likely - and then supplement with some air bags for when you tow. That setup is the safest and will ride the best.

One of these days if I get a wild hair up my ass I will turn my rear suspension into a proper 4 link setup to match the front and bag the van all the way around. That would be the ideal - would ride awesome, easy to level out when parked or towing - and can air it all the way down when in camp for minimal step-in.

[Pntyrmvr]

Lift blocks that big will allow too much variance in the driveline angle. Go with new springs from a knowledgeable company that asks lots of questions about what final results you want. They will not be cheap.

[REF]

Ya, running that big of a block is not ideal, increases the likelihood of axle wrap. A new set of properly spec’d springs and rear air bags for when you tow would be best.
Assuming you’re in one of the Carolinas?
Check with Chris for a set of springs at https://www.ujointoffroad.com

The other players are of course Deaver, but they have crazy lead times and are on the west coast.

Many have had good luck with Alcan spring in Grand Junction, CO

You’ll want to get weights front/back, all 4 corners is even better. You’ll find scales at landscape material yards or disposal yards.

[86Scotty]

Originally Posted by REF

You’ll want to get weights front/back, all 4 corners is even better. You’ll find scales at landscape material yards or disposal yards.

Metal recycle yards are all over my part of the world. City/County dumps too. They are your cheapest bet for a general weight for your vehicle, usually free or maye $5. Every time I go to metal recycle I have something to discard so it's free. Also, they love my van and want to ask me about it. "Hey man, that thing got a lift kit on it?" These are not erudite humans generally.

They won't give you each axle though, but a CAT scale will. Download the CAT Weigh My Truck app on your phone, put in your credit card number, then use their locator to find a scale. They are at every major truck stop and you will likely find one within a few minutes of your house. You don't even have to go in the store. Drive up, open app, put in scale number printed on sign, wait for weight and processing (30 seconds). Weight ticket is displayed on app and also emailed to you.

As for individual wheel weights that is more tricky but I can't see why you'd need more than axle weights.

Also, more info in this thread:

https://www.sportsmobileforum.com/fo...ate-31873.html

[Twoxentrix]

All the Vans vary a little, and id like to think when constructed thought was put into maintaining a sense of balance. I’d recommend getting the weight of all 4 corners; depending on your layout and upgrades.
On mine the propane tank, 18gal water tank, and 46 gallon transfer flow are all installed on the drivers side, not much in the van on the passenger side to counterbalance all that weight. So if I was going to order new springs I’d anticipate springs manufactured to address the imbalance. You may not need to.

[D1MA]

Thank you, everyone.

I thought axle warp is mainly experienced under hard acceleration.

I generally take it easy with the van, especially when going over rough stuff or when towing.

I spoke to Lou from Alcan, who said around 4-8 weeks, $1500 + shipping for 8" of lift.

When I installed these OE springs I saw 4" of lift and thought that would be good enough, and at a fraction of the price.

I figured my springs were flat and 4" would be more than enough to get me flat.

Looks like I'm back to square one

I went to a landscape design place that sells gravel and got on the scales:

F: ~3660 / R: ~3560 - 7220lb total

If I were planning to do a 7" lift block with the OE replacement springs, would I then aim to get springs that have an 11" high curve in them? Seems like a lot and I'm probably not doing my math correctly.

Would I then need to get tapered shims to fix the pinion angle?

I enjoy doing most of the work myself and am guilty of trying to save a few bucks here but also realize that I have very limited experience with 4x4 especially when it comes to geometry and suspension.

[The_Vermonster]

Alcan and Deaver are probably the go to names for springs, but you do pay for the name. I would be willing to bet that you can get springs made locally much cheaper.

For instance, ATS is close to me. Stock springs are between $113 and $320

https://www.autoandtrucksprings.com/...-leaf-springs/
Now that doesn't give you the lift you need. But they do custom springs for a marginal cost more. So many of these shops are used to working on Semis so springs for a van are super easy for them. You also save a truckload on shipping buying local.

[Vanimal]

Any block over 3" is not good. With that said, some manufacturers actually come with them in most pick ups and incorporate a bump stop. I have 4.5" to 5" with 2" add a leaf. I did this over 20 years ago. They are still in good shape but I did break one inner leaf. This is what can happen with hi blocks, increased leverage on the leafs whether thru hard acceleration or just climbing a dirt hill. Without a torque arm it shortens your leaf life. An easy example of a torque arm (ladder arm) is the tow truck that Trailmatter has on his recovery tow truck on youtube. In comparison He has 2" blocks and still felt a need for one.
IMOP re-arching is ok if you replace the main leaf and go a little thicker and a smidge longer or you'll be right back where you are in 3-5 years depending on abuse. They are also a stiffer ride. Blocks work in a pinch but I would stay away. Also depending on your ride preference, the rear leafs can be made to be comfortable by either thicker less springs or more thinner springs. This you need to work with your spring manufacturer.
Lastly, most new custom leafs will have a degree wedge to help with the pinion but not all. You can get these from shops but stay away from aluminum shims on big trucks/ vans. I pulverized one on my super torquey Jeep Cherokee w 37.
Pinion angle, a angle finder would help. I was told once to match the pinion angle to the trans output flange angle with little or no * of variance. I also would check this with your leaf company.

[Pntyrmvr]

I also recommend you match the transmission angle when setting up the rear axle with the exception of leaving the rear axle 1 degree down at rest. The rear end will torque up under load thereby making the two angles more equal when it counts to aid ujoint life and minimize vibration.