weak steering - Page 2

schluchtenflitzer · 02-08-2014, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carringb

That said.... Why would you do this? I've always been taught since say one of driving not so turn the wheels while at a full stop. I alway roll, even ever so slightly. I had to train some of my driver's not to do it because the front tires on our trucks were getting worn out in 20,000 miles (and 19.5's aren't cheap). The tie rods probably would have gotten worn out too if it weren't the the annual Dodge tie-rod recalls (and recalls for the recalls).

You are absolutely right, but....
problem is that i am living in (tight) europe....our parking lots here are very very small and built for much smaller cars. So if you want to go in you have to turn 3 to 4 times lock to lock to get the van in the right possision. And you often have not a lot of time because you block the whole street while doing this
With automatic tranny you have to brake while doing it. Shifting in neutral is no solution because it drives me creasy

carringb · 02-09-2014, 10:11 AM

Oh yes.... Forgot about your tiny parking problem

Have you ever thought about a hydraulic-ram steering assist? This has become a popular trend in the rock-crawl world, for good reason. It would solve your problem, and give your van even more off-road credibility.

http://www.pscmotorsports.com/vehicl...ssist-kit.html

Video:
http://www.powerblocktv.com/two-minu...lic-ram-assist

carringb · 02-09-2014, 10:17 AM

Also, have you thought about using "2-wheel drive low" for parking? Just leave the hubs unlocked and put in 4-lo, so you won't need to brake as much. It won't hurt anything as long as the hubs are unlocked, as long as you don't goose the throttle while it's in low. Lot's of guys use the method when parking large trailers.

Chance · 02-09-2014, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schluchtenflitzer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_6L_E350

Do you have wheels with extra offset?

If so, the tires may need to roll forward/back when turning from a dead stop. The brakes stop that little bit of rolling and bind up the steering. Try it on sand or grass and see if it is easier.

Or, turn the wheel full lock, mark the top of the tire, turn full lock the other direction and see if the tire has rotated slightly. Do that with the parking brake on so you know the van didn;t move.

Mike

I think thats exact the problem ....but my wheels have 0 offset and i have no spacers in. So i think normaly the power steering should have enough power to get it.
I forgot to say that it does NOT help if i rise up the rpm´s....if i get my feed from the brake i am able to turn. Still harder than usual but it works.
I can not imagine that this is normal

You don't have to have wheels with offset and or use spacers for the implied problem to occur. For example, just changing the tire diameter can increase or decrease this issue. Anything that moves the tire's contact patch center from the steering's virtual pivot will affect this problem.

Also, wider tires take more force to turn even when not forced to rotate back and forth. My Mustang's manual steering got a lot heavier by simply going to wider tires -- without brakes applied.

And added van weight will also magnify any of the above. I agree that the likely cause is that tires have to roll in order to turn -- even though your wheels don't have offset. Much of this is built into front suspension to make vehicle self-correcting when a tire hits an object on road or trail. It adds stability.

schluchtenflitzer · 02-10-2014, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carringb

Have you ever thought about a hydraulic-ram steering assist? This has become a popular trend in the rock-crawl world, for good reason. It would solve your problem, and give your van even more off-road credibility.

As I know it is not available for the E-serie. But i will ask them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carringb

Also, have you thought about using "2-wheel drive low" for parking?

Same problem, i do not feel a change.

@ Chance
Question to me is if there are some SMB drivers out there with the same combination and do NOT have the problem like me.
My van is converted like a quadvan (all original Ford parts),
34" tires, 0 offset wheels (17x9) and Ford F250 frontend.

I saw a lot of "monsters" out there with much bigger wheels and without any special steering systems.
this guy for example...do you think he have the same problem?

At all american cars i had up to know i used to turn the wheel with one finger even with bigger tyres, now i need two strong arms like in an 50 year old truck....

carringb · 02-11-2014, 12:58 PM

To be honest, I think it doesn't come up often because most folks don't need to turn while on the brakes. Also tire tread pattern matters a lot. A Mud Terrain tire won't resist near as much as an All Terrain. Most the guys with big tires have Mud Terrains which have substantially less grip on pavement because they have some much less tread contact area.

**Gooseberry** · 02-11-2014, 05:53 PM

Does it make a difference when you pull the vacuum line from the brake booster and cap it off. Do not drive like this but check to see if you can recreate it by opening and closing the vavuum line going to the booster?

carringb · 02-11-2014, 09:04 PM

I thought of another factor while driving home.... QuadVan modifies the steering geometry to increase the turn ratio and wheel cut angle, for sharper turning. But this does have the disadvantage of decreasing the mechanical advantage of the steering system because it places the tie-rod ends closer to the "king-pin" axis (it's still called that even though everybody uses ball joints now).

schluchtenflitzer · 02-12-2014, 12:34 AM

I also have now mud tires on....same problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carringb

I thought of another factor while driving home.... QuadVan modifies the steering geometry to increase the turn ratio and wheel cut angle, for sharper turning. But this does have the disadvantage of decreasing the mechanical advantage of the steering system because it places the tie-rod ends closer to the "king-pin" axis (it's still called that even though everybody uses ball joints now).

This can be the issiu

do you have more information about this? I was thinking about an other steering arm (pitman arm)
Now i have a 3.3 turns lock to lock....for me it would be ok to increase it. Turning radius is about 41 feet to the right side. To the left side is about 44.

I guess the pitman arm is the original one from the E350 but i am not shure about this.

I will make some pics today and will show it here to you guys.

carringb · 02-12-2014, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schluchtenflitzer

I also have now mud tires on....same problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carringb

I thought of another factor while driving home.... QuadVan modifies the steering geometry to increase the turn ratio and wheel cut angle, for sharper turning. But this does have the disadvantage of decreasing the mechanical advantage of the steering system because it places the tie-rod ends closer to the "king-pin" axis (it's still called that even though everybody uses ball joints now).

This can be the issiu

do you have more information about this? I was thinking about an other steering arm (pitman arm)
Now i have a 3.3 turns lock to lock....for me it would be ok to increase it. Turning radius is about 41 feet to the right side. To the left side is about 44.

I guess the pitman arm is the original one from the E350 but i am not shure about this.

I will make some pics today and will show it here to you guys.

Stock 2wd vans are just about 4 turns lock to lock and turning circle is 48 ft. A shorter pitman arm would increase torque output from the steering box, however you may need to find a "drop" pitman arm (i.e. one with a slight step shape instead of straight) to keep the drag-link parallel with the trac-bar.

Like this one (but maybe with out so much step)

I don't remember for sure, but I think QuadVan does swap in the longer F-series pitman arm. Somebody else may know better.