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Old 05-23-2021, 07:00 PM   #31
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Back in the day there was a statistic published that stated 80% of the deaths in cargo vans was from the interior contents.

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Old 05-24-2021, 07:23 AM   #32
JWA
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I'll add something that may or may not be pertinent here......

"crush test" suggests how well a van modified or stock original will perform but what are we calling a "crush test" exactly. To my mind that term conjures an image where a load is applied directly on top of the van OR if it were flipped upside down and dropped from some height.

IF we're talking how well a modified or stock van remains intact during a roll-over the top would be the second element of the body to experience any force, the side wall(s) being the first. (For this example I'm speaking of the cargo area, between the B- and C-pillars; A->B- is assumed to remain intact per safety standards.) If an E-Series roof sheet metal is cut away it is slightly compromised because the sheet metal and horizontal ribs are gone. If I'm not mistaken a movable pop top has a bit of framing that is or should be attached to the upper body which would act ever so slightly to add some lost rigidity back into the body.

The biggest loss of structural rigidity occurs when/if the C-Pillar is modified (such as a fixed fiberglass raised roof) and that loss not rectified. I have two vans meeting that description, one a 2000 and a 2005. MOST converters who properly installed such roofs included the aforementioned "roll cage" welded onto the upper body AND a C-Pillar lintel that ties it all into the body. There is a loss of rigidity to the van body (between the B- and C-Pillars but not horribly significant. Another factor taken into consideration for that type modification was a FMVSS requiring the rear doors to have an upper latch as a stock van would have (driver's side).

The fiberglass roof cap is essentially useless in a roll-over crash but if the inner "roll cage" remains intact theoretically the upper structure would have enough remaining rigidity to somewhat keep the van body from completely collapsing on occupants. (Don't ask me how I know a van originally built WITH that "roll cage" installed is greatly compromised when it's removed---its too embarrassing to discuss. 'Nuff said.! )

This is long -winded andperhaps out of place here but IMHO its necessary to discuss the body areas we're most concerned with otherwise we're speaking of different body areas or parts.


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Old 05-24-2021, 08:29 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JWA View Post
"crush test" suggests how well a van modified or stock original will perform but what are we calling a "crush test" exactly. To my mind that term conjures an image where a load is applied directly on top of the van OR if it were flipped upside down and dropped from some height.
Roof Crush Test Definition:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.216a

"This standard establishes strength requirements for the passenger compartment roof. [...] The purpose of this standard is to reduce deaths and injuries due to the crushing of the roof into the occupant compartment in rollover crashes."

Roof Crush Test Procedure:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.go.../tp-216-05.pdf
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Old 05-24-2021, 09:01 AM   #34
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While this is a good question, there are some risks when using a van modified for RV use. Having this info might be helpful from and insurance standpoint. I like poptops for several reasons in addition to this topic. Regarding rollovers, they are less susceptible to crosswinds due to their sail area, and they encourage a lower center of gravity as on top roof storage or high cabinets are not as practical. For those prioritizing the importance of rollover protection of other elements, a converted ambulance may be the way to go. I believe the box is tested and required to withstand a rollover and structural the most sound portion of the vehicle.
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Old 05-29-2021, 10:14 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by simplesez View Post
Take 86scotty analogy and add a box frame inside the panel structure. The fiberglass panel might crack but the frame would be intact. That is more accurate.
Simplesez...I agree with all you have said. Especially regarding the inner frame construction. Having done many conversions and fabrication of my projects tied with the structural integrity of home building, a cut out can be restrengthened to exceed its original design or intent. The side upper frame structure of a Econoline is the main support in a rollover, the roof tin with a couple of cross braces, which by the way are more intended in supporting the roof skin than side structural support, are not as relevant as you may think. Once the roof is dented (depressed or extruded) it now adds in pulling and collapsing the side upper outer rails. Designing the frame for your open (cut out) roof can actually be made to increase the strength of the roof structure. As far as passenger retention from faulty seats or restraint mounts. I don't think it is going to matter if an ejection occurs thru the opening as opposed to a rolling around inside with cabinets and other loose items having their way! Besides, a fiberglass top will crumble in a rollover a pop up may survive with of course some damage but it has less susceptible surface for this to occur, meaning that it may actually survive ! IMOP!
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