Your GPS Is Wrong

[rionapo]

Originally Posted by xcnick

Me neither, but it is at the library so I will see it pretty soon. Just takes a while to get it transferred to my branch. Just like i am checking out all the GPS solutions this looks like a good education to add. It is reviewed everywhere, even the NY times

In the talk, he was more interested in wayfinding as a mental process and as a natural adaptation to human environments. The GPS comment was shooting fish in a barrel: how moderns are losing the skills the species used to survive and the consequences off it. Example: increased deaths among Inuits using GPS vs. traditional navigation.

On the mental side, how does the human brain, or other animal brains, find their way? For skills, he talks about Inuits and desert Bedouins reading snow and sand to travel. And he discussed how societies can form around their navigation skills, including two cultures on an island off Australia: the land-based one with very tight controls on social norms and the island-based group more open-minded, perhaps as a result of its need to navigate the open seas.

The mental and social stuff is interesting but I want to read more about way finding techniques themselves, even if I'm never hunting seals in the Arctic.

Don

[rob_gendreau]

All due respect, but Professor Huth must be a bit, well, wrong.

I googled "your gps is wrong" and in fact it appeared the GPS was correct. Perhaps the MAP was wrong though. Someone who can't distinguish the two needs a nav course. But maybe it gets luddites to buy his book....

BTW, I have spent too much time trying to get Google to correct some of their maps. Some of the roads shown were quite risky; you'd think they'd be a bit more worried about such inaccuracies. In the MAPS, not the GPS.

[rionapo]

Originally Posted by rob_gendreau

All due respect, but Professor Huth must be a bit, well, wrong.

I googled "your gps is wrong" and in fact it appeared the GPS was correct. Perhaps the MAP was wrong though. Someone who can't distinguish the two needs a nav course. But maybe it gets luddites to buy his book....

BTW, I have spent too much time trying to get Google to correct some of their maps. Some of the roads shown were quite risky; you'd think they'd be a bit more worried about such inaccuracies. In the MAPS, not the GPS.

Could be, though I've had plenty of mis-directions from GPS NAV units, especially in cities. And, there's always the tale of the 900 mile drive across Europe based on GPS NAV directions, though one could question the driver's attention span. (900 mile journey). Could be the distinction is between a plain vanilla GPS vs. a NAV unit. And I completely agree that maps are deteriorating in quality. And, increasing in clutter, IMO.

My interest in Huth's talk and book is the mental, social and natural aspects of navigation by humans. I use GPS regularly and always enjoy your comments on various options; esp. GaiaGPS that you introduced me to. So, it's not a Luddite issue, I don't think, but an additional way of looking at the environment.

Don

[xcnick]

It is encyclopedic in length, but very readable. No real how to parts yet.

I liked the brain stuff. I, and probably most of us, always know where north is... until I didn't. I was probably 30 something and flying hang gliders in New Mexico over flat lands. When I lost the knowledge of where I was it was a feeling I had never experienced, and never experienced again. We probably don't feel we know where we are because we always do and it is a normal feeling.

[rionapo]

Originally Posted by xcnick

It is encyclopedic in length, but very readable. No real how to parts yet.

I liked the brain stuff. I, and probably most of us, always know where north is... until I didn't. I was probably 30 something and flying hang gliders in New Mexico over flat lands. When I lost the knowledge of where I was it was a feeling I had never experienced, and never experienced again. We probably don't feel we know where we are because we always do and it is a normal feeling.

He started his talk by asking everyone to close their eyes and point north. Then open them and see how many directions the hands were choosing. I'd say fewer than half pointed north; maybe less than 25%.

Don

[xcnick]

Should have specified true or magnetic. ;-)

[daveb]

Originally Posted by xcnick

Should have specified true or magnetic. ;-)

Ha... how many folks don't know about how you need to compensate for where you are. You'd better have some expertise when plotting off a USGS quads and using a compass. Still I got to love my tracking GPS stuff and mine might be old maps, but I can always see if I'm on the wrong track.

[xcnick]

Another hang gliding story. I think it was about 1997 and a few of us were using hand held GPS because it was our National Championships in Lakeview Oregon. I had my worst incident ever. My glider broke up in the air and I came down under a parachute. I impacted on the very top of a mountain so everyone flying could see where I was. As the other pilots flew over they gave my GPS coordinates out so the fire department etc. had it. I was SOL because i had a broken foot and couldn't walk out.

We all had radios so hours of frustrating conversation ensued. Then I hear the sound of a quad coming my way. "Good to see you, but I have to ask, who are you?" Turns out he was a Silvernist. Spell checker can't help me, but a man hired to count trees. He had seen me go down and from many miles away, took out his compass, got a bearing and drove right to me. He had no radio, didn't know I was hurt,

Anyways, he is the kind of guy who belongs "out there." Me: "OK Google, find me a way out of here!"

[macmcintire]

Here is video of John Huth on "The Lost Art of Finding Our Way:"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0hn725ijyA

[rob_gendreau]

If you are into the human navigation thing look into some of the stuff linguists and social psychologists and others have done on the subject.

An example is just to read the Wikipedia article on relative directions. Not all cultures use them; aboriginal people in Australia use absolute direction.

And there are big variations in preferences among people even within that; some prefer verbal directions like "left at Main, right on Elm" while others would prefer "north on Main, east on Elm" and still others have to have a map.

But did anyone else notice Mr Huth is the DONNER Professor of Science at Harvard? No wonder he's interested in wrong turns....