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Old 11-19-2012, 06:41 PM   #11
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Re: Closing/restricting use around Canyonlands N.P.

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Originally Posted by BroncoHauler
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Originally Posted by Makalu1
This sort of thing has been going on in Utah since before the days of Glen Canyon Dam and the Echo Park controversy. This fight will go on for more generations and well past this president and the next and the next...

As one who has lived and worked in Utah for 40 years, all I can say is don't be sucked into this gloom and doom, end of life as we know it, nonsense. Stay on the trails and don't act like you can or need to drive everywhere on the planet and I think your privileges will be protected. By the way, since the beginning of the last oil and gas boom several years ago, I have seen far more use and access of off-road activity in Utah than ever before. Places like Moab DO value their customers, it just happens that you (we) are not the only ones.

Yes, it is very political and no, I don't think this discussion belongs in this forum- it poisons the atmosphere for all!
Yep, these discussions have been going on for years, and will continue to go on for years. No argument. At the same time, the list of Federal and state property that has been placed off limits for motorized recreation grows each and every year.

Where I 100% disagree with you is stating that this discussion is inappropriate for this forum. Without access to open spaces, SMB's will only be camping in Walmart parking lots and KOAs. I don't think any part of this discussion has been poisonous at all. Agree or don't agree with statements made here, that's absolutely your right. There are many issues on this forum that are FAR more contentious, and I can only think of one subject that has been banned from further discussion (but even on that subject, the earlier posts remain here for people to make up their own minds).


Herb

There certainly is a place for discussions like this in this forum, and there are many topics that directly touch on us that we ought to be able to discuss in a civilized manner, and I'm not talking about "gas or diesel." That's the essence of democratic social discourse. Unfortunately, such is human nature that there will inevitably arise a moron, who is unable to exercise restraint of tongue and pen, who effectively prevents any courteous discussion from transpiring.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:15 PM   #12
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Re: Closing/restricting use around Canyonlands N.P.

Okay then, fair enough, Herb. I actually think it is pretty funny what you said about one subject being banned on this site, I'd only been on here a couple of days when I learned about THAT one!

So, many of us will have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think that the main reason that new places are being added to the list of places we can't drive is precisely because one kind of vehicle or another is finding its way into even the most remote of places. I am finding tracks in places that I never would have believed anyone would drive, and I find that sad, especially when they impact the most fragile terrain. I have seen some very encouraging signs that off roaders can police themselves, but like any activity, it only takes a few bad apples (maybe that moron you refer to, nomadcat) to spoil it for the bunch.

As one who likes to walk AND drive, I think there is a reasonable approach to this subject and that includes the area around Canyonlands, most of which is a mix of BLM and state lands. Like Grand

Staircase, protections and even Monument status could be given here that also includes and protects some of the preexisting uses of the land, including 4-wheeling in places where it has gone on before and perhaps in some new areas as well. But on the other hand, just because our parents or grandparents here did certain things a certain way, this isn't the old days and there are millions more of us competing for the same resources. Even if it does not become Monument, I would still prefer to see some regulation because my fellow humans have shown a great capacity to trash everything in their path for profit and momentary pleasure. But I am no more worried about losing nice and challenging places to drive my SMB (when I get it!) in this country than I am about losing my right to protect my SMB in the way I see fit, and I will lose no sleep about either.

If you don't like what's being proposed, organize and work to defeat it. Personally, when it comes to Moab I will continue to buy my sandwich from the vendor who makes them the best, not based on who they vote for or what they support.
Respectfully,
Scott
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