Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-12-2019, 10:42 PM   #1
Spr
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Illinois
Posts: 55
Winch wiring to house battery or van battery?

Hello All,
After a couple close calls I’ve decided to install a winch onto my van. My question relates to the wiring. I’ve searched the forum and have found some good threads but none of them got to the bottom of anything. The install will be a Warn V12 on a 2010 SMB 6.0 with an aluminess bumper. On a past thread one of the members here suggested wiring the winch directly to the house battery to avoid possible FICM damage if the van battery voltage were to drop below 10v. Unfortunately that thread stopped there, and by the time that comment was posted it was so far off the original topic I decided to just start a new thread.
To me FICM damage sounds as equally problematic as being stuck in the mud so the idea of wiring a winch direct to the house battery seems pretty logical. However in thinking about it the battery separator will disconnect from all charging systems when the voltage falls below 13v which will mean I will be running the winch off the house battery without a charge coming into it. I know the charge coming into a battery with the van running is minimal, but at least its something. Battery math equations have never been my thing so I was hoping to hear some thoughts you all might have about the what option is better.

One nice factor when wiring to the house battery is that it’s much easier to make the connection. If memory serves me right I have blade terminals that I can simply connect the regular lugs too. However, If connecting to the van battery I would love some suggestions on how to do this as well. I’m assuming that I want to connect to the front battery on the rail as it looks like this is the one that gets power direct from the alternator but Im assuming that this battery has post terminals with limited space due to the inline wiring for the second battery. This sounds a little tricky, any suggestions would be great.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.
__________________

__________________
_________________________
Spr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 01:15 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Durango, Colduhrado
Posts: 461
'09 6L and my Warn V12 is connected through the van batteries. Haven't used it yet but you should have the engine running when you do to keep from running the voltage too low. Curious to see what the experts have to say.
__________________

__________________
All things being equal - fat people use more soap.
eddyturn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 01:23 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: ree-know, nuh-vah-duh
Posts: 78
Garage
Wouldn't worry as much about starting vs. house battery, as the size of the cabling needed to support 350+ amps...4/0 or larger for that length...or dual cables.
A battery is a battery. As long as it is connected to a charging system that can quickly replenish, and you know the battery, and charging limitations, should be good to go. https://www.optimabatteries.com/en-u...ficm-questions
There are a multitude of battery terminals, and cable configurations, that can do what you need.
https://www.batterycablesusa.com/Mar...p-Post-to-Stud
https://www.batterycablesusa.com/bat...military-style
Will the winch be installed on the front or rear bumper?
Regards.
Chris
__________________
Chris
2006 E350 4x4 SMB: 6.0L-5R110-Atlas-D60-D60-yada-yada-yada
unreng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 04:13 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Marcel Huijser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Montana
Posts: 137
I was advised to wire the winch to the start battery.
This has worked without any problems.

Of course we use the winch only with the engine running, which is logical as you would want to "aid" the winch anyway by pressing the accelerator a bit and having the wheels turn slowly while you winch.
Marcel Huijser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 04:42 PM   #5
Spr
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Illinois
Posts: 55
Thanks for the responses so far.
unreng, I will be installing on the front bumper and plan on using 2/0 wire especially considering the 12' run to the van battery and 16-20 ft run to the house battery.
Also, I have a tripp-lite 2000w inverter/charger so there will be charge on the house battery with the van running until the voltage falls below 13ish and the separator disconnects.

The likely hood of ever running the winch for more than 5 min is pretty slim but Im leaning towards the house battery. The upfront cost of more cable is about $60 but eliminating a immediate or lingering FICM issue due to a quick voltage drop seems to be worth it.

I would love for someone to call me crazy on this or point out what Im missing if there is anything.

Thanks again.
__________________
_________________________
Spr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 04:56 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
shenrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: boise idaho
Posts: 2,082
Garage
this is a good question and im looking forward to seeing what others have to say as well.


paging member Scalf77!! hes posted some uber helpful info regarding the various electrical systems in these vans/campers.


I have mine hooked up with 0/0 gauge running to a pole connector in the rear. I have my winch on a receiver and move it from front to back as needed. I have no house batteries yet, so they are connected to the start batteries. I use mine a lot for woodcutting, but have only recovered a couple of vehicles and I don't consider pulling lightweight racecars onto a trailer much work for a 12k winch. no issues thus far, but the pcm issue is a great point to bring up. especially considering mine is not the original one that came with the van. makes me wonder what happened to the oem one...


one thing I have that's nice is the rpm control. whenever the system sees a big juice pull it automatically kicks up the idle to compensate.
__________________
"understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of your car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of your car, horsepower is how hard your car hits the wall, and torque is how far your car moves the wall."
shenrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 06:11 PM   #7
Site Team
 
BroncoHauler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Southern New Mexico
Posts: 8,907
1) engine running to maximize he amount of available current going directly to the winch, minimizing the amount drawn from any battery

2) connect the winch to starting batteries as they are, by design, intended to provide high amounts of current for sort periods of time. Deep cycle are designed to provide relatively steady current over long periods of time even to a low state of charge

3) IMO most winch pulls will generally be less than 60 seconds at a time since you may have to re-rig, adjust the rigging, or give the winch motor downtime to prevent it overheating


Herb
__________________
SMB-less as of 02/04/2012. Our savings account is richer, but our adventures are poorer.
BroncoHauler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 09:51 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Scalf77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 1,490
I agree with Herb, wire to the starter closest to the alternator. If you have control over your ACR/separator, I would disconnect and make sure all available power can go to the winch. While I think continued low voltage could be a problem for the FICM I don't think the winch time should cause an issue.

What separator do you have? Will your separator meet max load?

Since the max load of the Warn V12 is about 457 amps, even 105C #4/0 would be to small, 125C should just clear it. I don't suspect that a lot of winch owners run that, again because of the duration.


As far as the PCM blowing, I had three blow on my van in the 1st 6000 miles. It fortunately is part of the reasons I dug into RV electrical systems. While the root cause was identified (at least in my mind, i'd have to blow another PCM to prove) and fixed, I am just about to hit 100,000 this year. I would be more worried about the winch being on the house battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spr View Post
Also, I have a tripp-lite 2000w inverter/charger so there will be charge on the house battery with the van running until the voltage falls below 13ish and the separator disconnects.
For the record the tripp-lite 2000w inverter/charger will only charge the house battery off of shore power. The separator charges it via the alternator


-greg
__________________
2004 E350 EB V10 E/PH 2WD
Scalf77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 09:53 AM   #9
Spr
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Illinois
Posts: 55
Scalf77, thanks for the reply.
The ACR is the PN 7620B. This is the one without the manual control. I do have the momentary switch to connect the banks on the drivers side headliner area but I’m not sure if this also isolates the batteries and/or for how long it isolates them. I’m afraid I don’t know what the max load of the separator is, and the 105 degree C at #4/0 is also way above my pay grade. Assuming that’s wire/load talk I was told by Warn that 2/0 wire up to a 40ft run is more than enough current and considering I would only be at 12ft for the starter battery or 18ft for the house battery 2/0 would be more than sufficient. However this is based on a normal winch to battery setup and the whole reason we are even discussing this is because we get to deal with separators, house batteries, chargers, PCM’s etc.

Thanks for the clarifications about the inverter/charger not doing the charging. That’s good to know.

-Shaun
__________________
_________________________
Spr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2019, 09:59 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
carringb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 4,269
If you wire your winch to the starting battery on a stock setup 6.0 PSD, you are eventually going to a have a bad a day... It may not be a problem the first time you winch, but every time you winch, your chance of a problem goes up.

As you suspect, dropping supply voltage to the FICM is bad news. Most other vehicles are pretty much fail-safe from low starter battery voltage, because if the battery voltage is too low, the PCM will just turn itself off. The FICM will just cook itself instead.

That said.... there's more than one way to avoid this....

1) Install an aftermarket alternator that provides more power at idle.

2) Install a high-idle switch, and only winch using fast idle.

3) Install more or better batteries. Using house batteries is fine. But using the start batteries are fine too if you have a good separator and wiring that will keep it all in parallel while winching.

4) Do what you propose, and connect to house batteries with a cut-out... Downside is the length of wiring needed to reach most house batts. But the 6.0 starting batteries are remote as well. Either way make sure the wire gauge is sized for the extra distance.

5) Deep cycle batteries are good for starting too, provided they also output the CCA needed for your motor. When you winch, you may be deep cycling the battery, depending on the situation. With a regular starting battery, eventually it won't hold a charge anymore. Bad starting batteries are really the root cause FICM failures on rigs with high electric demands.

6) Install a more robust FICM

7) Test wet cell batteries periodically, using a carbon-pile tester (then recharge them with a charger!), and clean the terminals when you do that.

Any of the above will provide good insurance against FICM damage. Doing more than one is even better!

Also, winching methods will greatly change power demands from the winch. This higher the winch-line load, the higher the power demand. This is a good guide for winch-line forces:
http://asktop.net/wp/download/GTA09-14-002.pdf

The one thing not mentioned in that guide, is drum load forces. The more wraps around the drum, the harder it was to work. The manual that came with your winch describes that well.

Lastly, if you're only winch yourself, and you still have drive power, chances of exceeding the abilities of your charging system is low. But if you get stuck without drive power, or have to recover somebody else, or have to winch while pulling a trailer, or have to do multiple pulls... Your stock system probably won't keep up.
__________________

__________________
2000 E350 extended wagon dually
V10 w/ Banks Powerpack, Diablo Predator
Buckstop Outback bumper/grill guard
Reunel rear bumper
carringb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sportsmobile SIP or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.