Agile RIP kit and Steering Stabilizers - Page 3

vanislevan · 10-07-2018, 10:43 AM

If it’s lots of effort perhaps someone has over adjusted the steering box or a bad stabilizer.. Use word of mouth to find a quality place but don’t be afraid to get a second opinion.

arctictraveller · 10-07-2018, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_382

One other thought. Tire pressure can make a huge difference in the way my van drives. At the factory E350 pressure of 80 psi, it's all over the road.

Very interesting. With my Duratrac's, lower pressures cause the van to wander a lot, but higher pressure helps a lot, but at the cost of a harsh ride. Clearly different tires react differently to varied pressures.

wahoo · 10-08-2018, 09:29 AM

I have had an 04 Quigley since new that exhibited the same wandering described. In years past I have searched for solutions and it almost seemed that I was the only one with the problem, even "Tiger" at Quigley seemed to not know of it. I hated driving my van and often said it is "downright dangerous to drive and a white knuckle experience".

First let me say that an EB is more prone to this condition than the RB. Caster is very important, should be at least 5 1/2 -5 3/4 deg positive. Don't know if more helps or hinders (yes it is possible with COTS cams).

A year ago I had the Agile RIP kit installed along with a 9 leaf rear spring pack. I like it much better, especially the way the rear now handles and takes bumps and off angle turns into driveways. However, that did not get rid of the wandering. I took it to an alignment shop with very poor results and $220 poorer. Then I began a quest of searching alignment shops and talking with and picking the brain of THE alignment tech. Finally settled on a great shop in Oceanside. After an initial road test, I asked him, well how did it handle? He said it handled like "@#$%". That was exactly what I told him to begin with. He wanted to try removing steering stabilizer first and another pre-alignment test. Wow, what a difference, wandering mostly gone. And the steering wheel would return to center on it's own after a turn rather than having to crank it back. He then completed the alignment and re-installed the Fox/Agile steering stabilizer. While not as good as without, it was much better than when I brought it in.

I then made an appointment with Agile and John re-valved my stabilizer to a lighter setting. Works well now but steering is harder and not quite as willing to return to neutral as with no stabilizer. Decided better to go with it than no stabilizer due to off road concerns.

Word to person on here that has u shaped control arms, get rid of them and replace with the tubular ones! They are known to crack. I believe quigley has a bulletin about it.

joe

Pete · 10-08-2018, 02:46 PM

I have exactly the same issue with my van. I have the RIP kit installed, and that made a huge difference, as well as a good alignment, but now, it all seems like it has regressed back to the point that I originally started. I have it at my mechanic now, and he has an E350 as well. He said that they put a rear sway bar on their van, and it made a huge difference. The rear of the van was causing the front to sway around as well, a bit of the tail wagging the dog, but thinking I am going to put one of those in, and see if that helps. I also really need to get a shop that can do a good alignment on it. I think that is a big factor as well. Anyone have a good alignment shop in OC? I like the idea of putting the proper caster on it.

wahoo · 10-08-2018, 07:37 PM

Pete, you ought to try removing the steering stabilizer first just to see. It costs you nothing. And then proceed from there. Or the wandering of your van may be of a different cause than mine. Last year I was on a dogged no holds barred mission to get it better. I was fed up and at wits end.

As I mentioned before the Agile RIP kit and rear spring pack did nothing for my wandering problem.

BTW Agile does not recommend a rear stabilizer since it limits the rear spring travel.

joe

2004 E 350 EB V 10 SMB
Weighs in at about 9400#

Pete · 10-09-2018, 09:38 AM

OK, good call. I actually have two steering stabilizers on my van, but they have been there since the beginning, when things actually were better.

Strange thing is, when I put new tires on, that's when things got so much worse. Before you say "ahh, that's it", they were the exact same tires I had on it before. Very strange.

arctictraveller · 10-09-2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Strange thing is, when I put new tires on, that's when things got so much worse. Before you say "ahh, that's it", they were the exact same tires I had on it before. Very strange.

It's quite strange. Clearly, tires and tire pressure can make a big difference, but I would have expected the same brand to act the same way every time. Perhaps the lack of tread on the old ones allowed the tires to roll over imperfections in the road, rather than grabbing at them. It also seems odd to me that removing the steering damper would improve the steering, I have no theory about that one. It's clear to me though, that every single little component needs to be in top shape if one wants decent steering. So many folks have made big improvements, only to find things return to poor steering when something else begins to wear. Mine got better when I replaced the steering box with an Autozone rebuild, but two years later, the sector shaft has begun to wobble and the steering sucks again. Hopefully, it's just the box, and not additional parts too, since I just installed a Redhead box, but have yet to road test it. I'm also replacing the rear springs, including new bushings since worn rear bushings can also cause steering issues.

wahoo · 10-09-2018, 10:26 PM

I have a theory as to why over dampening of the steering damper may cause "wandering" on the highway. It is based on the condition that all steering and suspension components are in good condition and that the vehicle is properly and accurately aligned front and rear.

Newton's 1st law of motion states that "every object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force". His 3rd law states that "for every action in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction".

A vehicle travelling down the highway wants to stay in a straight line. Road conditions, gusts of wind, driver input and etc. provide an external force. As the steering attempts to return the vehicle to it's straight line course by an equal and opposite force, over dampening causes an excessive delay in allowing this to happen. The result is an over correction compounded by driver input to correct it. Thus the saga continues, the back and forth wandering.

I am not saying that no steering damper is desired. Quite the contrary. They are necessary on many vehicles to prevent "shimmy" depending on the steering geometry, big tires, vehicle characteristics or just too sensitive steering. When off roading, dampening is desired to moderate violent steering reaction.

The problem is trying to find the right amount of dampening to get the desired handling characteristics both on and off road. An adjustable steering dampener would be ideal.
Just now Googled it. Low and behold Fox makes one! I need to contact John.

joe

Orv · 10-09-2018, 10:31 PM

New tires often don't track as well as old ones on dry pavement, especially if they have an aggressive tread. Those tall tread blocks squirm around more than worn-down ones.

Pete · 10-10-2018, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orv

New tires often don't track as well as old ones on dry pavement, especially if they have an aggressive tread. Those tall tread blocks squirm around more than worn-down ones.

Yes, that was my theory as well, but the change was so drastic it didn’t seem logical.