U-Joint vs. SMB vs.Quigley vs. Advanced 4X4 vs. ???

[Ford_6L_E350]

I looked at all the choices when I did my conversion and went with Salem-Kroger. Today my choice would be Quadvan.

Reasons: All OEM Ford Parts. Professionally made brackets. Dual shocks. Excellent reputation.

Mike

[E350]

Originally Posted by BajaSportsmobile

But, I am sold on the performance of a Twin Traction Beam front suspension system. I have a Dana 50 TTB of my own design installed on my E350 SMB and nothing else I have driven compares.

I have never seen a Clydesdale TTB conversion but would like to check them out.

As an owner of a 1993 Ford Bronco bought new and a cherry 1995 Ford Bronco bought used in Texas to replace the worn out '93, I am somewhat familiar with the TTB front axle -- and of all the tire wear problems associated with trying to align them.

I absolutely, positively don't know much about suspensions compared to BajaSportsmobile, so I am really curious to see how a (what I consider to be a "light duty") TTB front axle would work on a 1 ton-plus E350 van.

I am not bashing, just curious. So, pictures would be greatly appreciated.

[carringb]

Originally Posted by BajaSportsmobile

But, I am sold on the performance of a Twin Traction Beam front suspension system. I have a Dana 50 TTB of my own design installed on my E350 SMB and nothing else I have driven compares.

QuadVan used to have a D50 TTB setup. It was phased out then the '05 F-series change came about. Even though their system had fully adjustable camber (even had indicators) john says they were disappointed with the short life of many of the wear components in their heavier build (near the end of Chinook, QuadVan was the exclusive 4c4 converter). I have driven both of their setups, and I was surprised how smooth the solid axle 4" drives. John made me take his own van on a test drive when I asked if he could still do a TTB conversion on my van. The test drive made me a believer. His van did have the updated foam-filled bumpstops which were softer than the old rubber ones. I never felt any amount of harshness ever over some really rotten RR crossing in the NW industrial area, where most cars crawl over at a slow walk.

[ridintall]

I owned an 04 Quigley SMB for 8 years. After I sold it I re-visited Quigley and took a trip out west to test drive the SMB and Quadvan 4x4s. After taking Johns van over the same RR track crossings and driving it around town, the decision was simple for me. The added plus of OEM components sealed the deal. My 2013 EB50 will be heading up to Quadvan next week.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[haywoodphotomaccom]

Owned and drove a Quigley RB as a daily driver for 2 years. Never happy with the ride.

Sold the Quigley and bought a Quadvan as a daily driver. 30,000 miles in 1.5 years. Much better in every respect.

BajaSportsMobile took the whole front end apart (photos coming) and put in two different sets of front springs last week to add an extra inch of up travel and the van rides even better. We are working on some other improvements...

[BajaSportsmobile]

Originally Posted by E350

As an owner of a 1993 Ford Bronco bought new and a cherry 1995 Ford Bronco bought used in Texas to replace the worn out '93, I am somewhat familiar with the TTB front axle -- and of all the tire wear problems associated with trying to align them.

I absolutely, positively don't know much about suspensions compared to BajaSportsmobile, so I am really curious to see how a (what I consider to be a "light duty") TTB front axle would work on a 1 ton-plus E350 van.

I am not bashing, just curious. So, pictures would be greatly appreciated.

Your Bronco and F150s (1/2 ton PU) use a Dana 44 Twin Traction Beams. I have seen a few odd ball versions of the D44 TTB that are very rare and I have no explanation for them but 99.9% of them are basically the same. The weakness of the stock D44 TTB is the stamped steel radius arms, they can bend under minor impact and they are too short, resulting in excessive caster change. The Traction Beams themselves are strong and the spindles, ball joints, u-joints, axles, lock hubs are essentially the same as any straight axle Dana 44 used in Ford, Chevy, Jeep... applications, mostly 1/2 ton vehicles. There are straight axle Dana 44's used in 3/4 ton applications by the same manufacturers, the difference being that they use larger spindles, bearings, steering knuckle, hub... in 8 lug but the same drive axles and u-joints.

Ford did the same thing in some F250 (3/4 ton) TTB trucks - they use a Twin Traction Beam that uses a D44 differential but with larger spindle, inner bearings, steering knuckle... in 8 lug but the same drive axles, u-joints and lock hubs as the lighter D44. These Twin Traction Beams are different in design than the D44 TTBs and the beams and are not interchangeable as the lengths are different. I consider these to be a hybrid "Heavy Duty D44 TTB" and not what I would build off of.

All of the same manufactures at one time or another used a straight axle Dana 60 (there are way too many configuration of the D60 to get into) which is considered to be the "heavy duty" axle of choice in 3/4 an 1 ton on up trucks. These D60's use bigger components than the D44, most importantly the R&P, drive axles, u-joints, spindles, wheel bearings, ball joints, lock hubs...

The Dana 50 Twin Traction Beam used by Ford in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks uses these same D60 sized components. The drive axles, u-joints, spindles, wheel bearings, ball joints, lock hubs... are the same size as the D60s of the same vintage (I say that because the new D60s use unit bearings and are somewhat different) and are just as strong. The D50 TTBs are different in design than the Bronco and F150 D44 TTBs (different lengths) and are not interchangeable.

All of the Bronco and F150s (1/2 ton PU) Dana 44 Twin Traction Beams are suspended with coil springs and located by radius arms. The F250 and F350 with the "Heavy Duty D44 TTB" or the stronger D50 TTB are suspended with leaf springs and have no radius arms as the leaf springs locate the beams.

For years we have been building, prerunning and racing Bronco and F150s with modified D44 TTBs with 37" tires and 600 HP and they hold up terrifically. The simplest modification is relocating the lower Ball Joint outward to change the camber and welding on 2 or 3 tube radius arms that are much longer to reduce caster change. These simple modifications yield 17 inches of front wheel travel on a Bronco with about a 4 inch lift. More complicated builds include lengthening (widening) both Traction Beams from 2.5 to 5 inches to increase track width and reduce camber change.

On my SMB E350 EB, I installed a Dana 50 TTB system using custom tubular radius arms welded to stock D50 TTBs from a 1 ton F350. It is every bit as strong as a Dana 60 in my opinion and has the ride comfort of independent wheel movement. I get 5 inches of bump travel and 7 inches of droop for a total of 12 inches and at a lower ride height. I'm running BFG LT315/70R17 which is reported to be 34.5" dia.

This is a picture of when we were building it:



This is a picture of a highly modified D50 TTB that is on the Blazer Prerunner I am building. It has equal length beams (passenger side beam cross in front of the driver side beam) and gets 24 inches of wheel travel:



A little 60 Mph action in Baja:

[youtube:3u25fqja]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=UU_-_gowpHkoogShV9AwPIuQ&v=-9BYrQj2hMw[/youtube:3u25fqja]

[E350]

That video is impressive. My van would have bottomed out on each of those bumps with jarring impact to the occupants and contents. Later today, I will post a picture of the gap between the motor mount and the differential on my van. When I was told what the length of travel on my van would be when it was converted, I did not understand that the up travel in the center of the front axle would be limited by the gap between the motor mount and the differential. May I am assume that you are positioning the axle forward to avoid the motor mount to increase up travel? Or does the wishbone effect of the Twin Traction Beam allow the wheel to move further upward while the differential stays centered vertically, thus allowing more up travel at the wheels without bottoming out?

Although I assumed that a TTB D50 was larger than my Bronco TTB D40, I never thought of using a TTB with leaf springs instead of coil springs, and I get it how that would eliminate a lot of the alignment and wear problems associated with the coil spring radius arm set up.

Baja, I know how much time it takes to post a detailed reply like you did with pictures and videos. And I think I am not out of line here by speaking both for myself and for others: THANK YOU for all the knowledge you are bringing to the forum!

[BajaSportsmobile]

Originally Posted by E350

That video is impressive. My van would have bottomed out on each of those bumps with jarring impact to the occupants. Later today, I will post a picture of the gap between the motor mount and the differential on my van. When I was told what the length of travel on my van would be when it was converted, I did not understand that the up travel in the center of the front axle would be limited by the gap between the motor mount and the differential. May I am assume that you are positioning the axle forward to avoid the motor mount to increase up travel? Or does the wishbone effect of the Twin Traction Beam allow the wheel to move further upward while the differential stays centered vertically, thus allowing more up travel at the wheels without bottoming out?

Although I assumed that a TTB D50 was larger than my Bronco TTB D40, I never thought of using a TTB with leaf springs instead of coil springs, and I get it how that would eliminate a lot of the alignment and wear problems associated with the coil spring radius arm set up.

Baja, I know how much time it takes to post a detailed reply like you did with pictures and videos. And I think I am not out of line here by speaking both for myself and for others: THANK YOU for all the knowledge you are bringing to the forum!

What else are you supposed to do when you can't sleep.

I guess I wasn't exactly clear. My van uses the stock coil spring buckets and upper shock mount - no leaf springs, even though the D50 TTB in original application did use leaf springs.

We did push the axle forward 1.5 inches but it is for tire clearance at the back of the fender - other 4x4 conversions also do this. Just about everyone also does some trimming of the front cross member for differential clearance.

You are correct about the wheel being able to "move further upward" because it pivots below the bump stop.

[witoke]

On the subject of 4x4 suspension and ride quality, I just found this while browsing the Colorado Camper van site:

http://coloradocampervan.com/Suspension ... stems.html

Since I would think there are far more Quigley van conversions out there than any other single alternative, this might be useful for Quigley owners. Take a look at the suspension articulation in a couple of the pictures. I know I can't do that in my stock Quigley van for sure!

[carringb]

Isn't it great that we have some 6+ (the 4 in the title, plus WhiteFeather/SK and Clydesdale... not to mention some of the independent converters) 4x4 conversions to argue about