High Heat Contact Cement???

[posplayr]

I thought I would throw this out there to hopefully avoid having someone else from getting into the same situation as I am in.

I have tried to use 3M Hi-Strength 90 spray adhesive for installing reflectex and headliner materials. It claims on the can to be "heat and moisture resistant".

https://www.acehardware.com/departme...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Additionally, I have now bought Weldwood Contact Cement and have come to find out that you will end up[ with the same problems with it at the 3M 90.

https://www.dap.com/products-project...wood-original/

The problem is that neither of these products are designed or intended for the high heat inside of a car interior which you might encounter in the hotter areas of the country like Tucson AZ.

I suspect that in more moderate climates near the coast that you will not run into these problems. I used to live in Santa Barbara county and never ran into these problems before.


The issue is that these adhesives become gummy and never fully cure. They basically remain in a rubbery sticky state and never develop or at least eventually lose any strong adhesion properties.

3M has recommended an alternate product for automotive applications

Product ID 38808
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40069438/

And Weldwood recommends a similar alternative product

Ladau Top and Trim adhesive.
UPC 7079800127
https://www.dap.com/products-project...ndau-top-trim/

I'm now in the process of trying to strip off the gummy material using a 36 grit flap wheel. Solvents really do not cut the rubber material so it is only through a physical action that it can be removed.

[arctictraveller]

That’s good info. This summer while in the desert, all my Velcro mounted stuff fell off when the adhesive melted, despite being cured for years.

[posplayr]

Originally Posted by arctictraveller

That’s good info. This summer while in the desert, all my Velcro mounted stuff fell off when the adhesive melted, despite being cured for years.

I can attest you don't want to use any normal heat range contact cement. i sprayed a liberal amount on a piece of Naugahyde vinyl and it impregnated the material backing and there is simply no way to get it off nor expect an amount of glue to ever hold it on against so it is basically junk.

For the headliner, I had to use a flapper wheel to grind off the gummy mess then applied a blocking primer to create a barrier, and then "applied built-for-purpose" headliner material which is much lighter than the vinyl.

[boywonder]

I used the DAP landau top adhesive extensively on my interior and it's held up great in the desert heat of So Cal for 5+ years.


It's about $50/gallon these days locally. I think I'm on my 3rd or 4th gallon.


I also used high temp headliner adhesive in rattle cans for porous materials (like my headliner)......and the two contact adhesives bond to each other very well, again no failures after 5+ years.


https://a1foamandfabrics.com/product...a723260e&_ss=r


https://www.yourautotrim.com/ca393hitehea.html

[moorefc]

Interesting, here 3M provides test data on 90 (which I have used in the PNW successfully) on headliner that had failed (Audi).

https://3m.citrination.com/pif/000692?locale=en-US (Shear Adhesion Failure Test 210F)

Here is their sheet comparing the two products they make, note the peel strength, Shear, and relative high temp specs....(160 170 F) (230 72 shear) (25, 10 peel)

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...aerosol-3m.PDF


Also check out their Contact 80 Neoprene (200F)....(400 shear)


Dap doesn't provide test data I could locate, but their service temp is less than either 3M products..(150F)
https://www.dap.com/media/4771/ww-la...r_tds_5819.pdf


The one thing you get from 3M and larger companies is test data....but experience certainly helps ones confidence....


This kind of adhesive has its limits...perhaps epoxy or some other?

[posplayr]

Originally Posted by moorefc

Interesting, here 3M provides test data on 90 (which I have used in the PNW successfully) on headliner that had failed (Audi).

https://3m.citrination.com/pif/000692?locale=en-US (Shear Adhesion Failure Test 210F)

Here is their sheet comparing the two products they make, note the peel strength, Shear, and relative high temp specs....(160 170 F) (230 72 shear) (25, 10 peel)

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...aerosol-3m.PDF

I used 3M 90 and it failed miserably!. I called the 3M tech support line for a recommendation on recovery from the issue. The RECOMMENDATION: DO NOT USE 3M 90 for a headliner!!!

I called DAP, They said the same thing. The standard high-temp products turn gummy and you should only use an automotive grade products.

[pjtpj]

We use this product for all auto upholstery including headliners: https://www.dap.com/products-project...ndau-top-trim/. As far as I can tell, everybody in the trade uses it. I even saw a TV hot rod shop episode where the dramatic moment was when ran out of it in the middle of the night before a delivery deadline and had to borrow 5 gallons from a buddy down the street.

I don't think you can buy it in a spray can. Most people use a $10 HF spray gun because eventually somebody will fail to clean out the gun and it will be ruined. You buy it at auto upholstery shops (or maybe Amazon, but I've never tried that). It is generally easier to work with than 3M 90 or other similar adhesives, but it is orange and sticky.

[posplayr]

Originally Posted by pjtpj

We use this product for all auto upholstery including headliners: https://www.dap.com/products-project...ndau-top-trim/. As far as I can tell, everybody in the trade uses it. I even saw a TV hot rod shop episode where the dramatic moment was when ran out of it in the middle of the night before a delivery deadline and had to borrow 5 gallons from a buddy down the street.

I don't think you can buy it in a spray can. Most people use a $10 HF spray gun because eventually somebody will fail to clean out the gun and it will be ruined. You buy it at auto upholstery shops (or maybe Amazon, but I've never tried that). It is generally easier to work with than 3M 90 or other similar adhesives, but it is orange and sticky.

Thanks, that is the DAP version I listed above. If you don't need such a large quantity, the 3M is available in a smaller spray can and has much more material than the 3M 90 (of comparable size).

[pjtpj]

Originally Posted by posplayr

Thanks, that is the DAP version I listed above. If you don't need such a large quantity, the 3M is available in a smaller spray can and has much more material than the 3M 90 (of comparable size).

Agreed, however, I can't vouch for the alternative 3M product (or provide any application tips).

[Orv]

Originally Posted by posplayr

3M has recommended an alternate product for automotive applications

Product ID 38808
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40069438/

I used that stuff to glue a convertible top to its frame, once, and it held up well. Make sure you follow the instructions to get the best bond; as I recall you need to spray both surfaces and wait for it to get tacky before putting them together. Tarp anything fabric in the vicinity because it *will* soak in and make a spot that stays sticky forever until it accumulates enough dirt...