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Old 05-28-2016, 07:41 PM   #1
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Strange Penthouse Scissor Bolt?

Hi Guys-

I am in the process of replacing the scissor bolts on my EB GMC Savanna with Manual Ph top. I added an Aluminess Baja rack with 2 customs mounted 160 watt Zamp Solar panels. Panels are like 60 lbs and rack is probably 120 lbs at least so butting up close to the limit of the manual top. I can still lift it by myself, but it takes some effort.

I have got the top proped up with blocking and bottle jacks, and relieved the tension on both springs. Larry's video was a great help. The mechanism must be different for the long box as my springs seems to be twice as long as the ones in the video, and my chain only has a total of 8 links and 7" of wood blocking behind the helper springs. Top has closed fine even before I put the rack and bigger panels up there.

I went to take out the middle bolts where the tube cross b/c they were super bent, but there is no nut!! I have never seen a set up like this in all the SMB research I have done. My top was put in by SMB west in Nov of 2008, but this hardware doesn't seem to be stock. Anyone else have bolts like this? Should I just hack saw them out an replace them with the grade 8's I have?

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Thanks for any advice!
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Old 05-29-2016, 08:49 AM   #2
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Are you the original owner? If so, then perhaps SMB has changed the design?

The pins that are there have an advantage over threaded fasteners.....you don't have the shear load from the walls of the crossbars applied to threads of a bolt.

I would keep using them unless they are worn or use shoulder screws. Shoulder screws eliminate having the crossbar shear loads on threads as well.

If you are removing the crossbars to straighten consider sleeving them with Cro-Mo tubing. IIRC you need 3/4" OD tubing.....you have lots of weight up there, and while they are apart........

Both the tubing and shoulder screws are available from McMaster-Carr or perhaps locally depending on where you live.

Since the pivot holes in my crossbars with getting egged out, I enlarged the holes to 5/16" and used 5/16" shoulder screws.

Here is the section of my build thread about the shoulder screws and sleeving the crossbars....starting at post #30

http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/for...p-10808-3.html
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Old 05-29-2016, 12:15 PM   #3
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Thanks for sharing some of your experiences.

I am not the OG owner, but I had the paperwork showing the top was installed in 2008.

I was only planning on replacing the clevis pins in the center b/c they are pretty bent. I don't think I will be able to get them out without cutting. When the top is supported by the cross bars, it sags a little, but the crosses aren't bowing out. It doesn't seem like there should be that big of a gap between the bars, but the way the pins are set up, they can slide freely since there is not but to hold them together. Now I am wondering if I should just leave it until it breaks since I wonder if I will be able to align the holes again if I cut these pins out.





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Old 05-29-2016, 02:17 PM   #4
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I would not wait till they break. If one of them breaks while the top is up it is incredibly difficult to get the top down.

Shoulder screws are a good solution. Others on the forum have use grade 8 bolts as well.

Be sure and only do one bolt at a time. That will help with alignment.

The existing pins may have been replaced by the PO. That is not the usual setup.
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Old 05-29-2016, 03:54 PM   #5
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Thanks for the insight Larry. You video was incredibly helpful in getting me this far. When you say do 1 at a time. should I leave the spring on one side engaged while I do the other side? or is leaving them both disengaged ok?

I have grade 8 normal bolts, but worried about them shearing from what Boywonder was saying. I think the only way to get these clevis pins out is going to be to cut them with a dremel b/c they are pushed in from the inside out. It looks like they could be stock b/c there is a metal rivet in the canvas where there end of the clevis pin attaches to the key ring.

I'll source some shoulder bolts and go for the cut and see approach.
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Old 05-29-2016, 04:30 PM   #6
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My top has pins just like what I see with yours. It was installed new in 2006. Myself and one other person replaced the pins. Once we supported the top with vertical 2x4s we then just had to push up a bit to align the holes so the pins would come out. Replaced with new pins and cotter pins. One of them was pretty bent so it took a little muscle to pull it out but not too bad. Just grabbed a hold of it with pliers and pulled while we twisted some. Putting the pins back in took a little longer just because we had to make sure the holes were perfectly lined up.

Looks like you have the top well supported. Just push or pull on the cross bars to get the holes to line up. A lot easier with two people.

I have pictures on a thread showing what I did. I had a broken weld that we also fixed and beefed up the weld on the other side as well. I Forget what I titled it but a search of the forum for pop top cross bar fixes should come up with several threads on the subject.

Good luck with your repairs.

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Old 05-29-2016, 09:23 PM   #7
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One other thing.....consider getting rid of the slop/spacing between the crossbars; this applies a bending moment to the pins as well as a shear load....not good design....

I used some nylon spacers that look like they were made for this application (purchased from Mcmaster.




So....to clarify....your crossbars are not bent but those pins are?
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Old 05-29-2016, 10:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boywonder View Post
One other thing.....consider getting rid of the slop/spacing between the crossbars; this applies a bending moment to the pins as well as a shear load....not good design....

I used some nylon spacers that look like they were made for this application (purchased from Mcmaster.



So....to clarify....your crossbars are not bent but those pins are?
wow, those look nice! I was cruising around on the McMaster website to source new clevis pins or switch to shoulder bolts, but I hadn't looked at Nylon spacers.

Correct, the cross bars are fine as far as I can tell, but the pins in there now are super bent. The top still operates normally, but visually, I was like these need replacing, especially with the extra weight.

In reading MKryan's post about fixing his electrical lift and pin replacement, His pics indicate that his build had Clevis pins stock from SMB. Interestingly, his were 5/16 factory drilled, so I wonder if mine are 5/16ths to. I guess i'll know once I can bust them out.

Thanks for all the help, the bummer is I just realized I have to SMOG check the rig next week to pass stupid CA emissions, so I'm gonna have to put it back together tomorrow to handle that. All that blocking was a pain in the ass!
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Old 05-30-2016, 07:27 AM   #9
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..It's quite likely that the pins are bent from the spacing between the crossbars, lose that slop and the pins are in shear.

McMaster sells clevis pins too.....haven't really looked around for them though, and shoulder screws are a drop in replacement.
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Old 05-30-2016, 11:31 AM   #10
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..It's quite likely that the pins are bent from the spacing between the crossbars, lose that slop and the pins are in shear.

McMaster sells clevis pins too.....haven't really looked around for them though, and shoulder screws are a drop in replacement.
Goodpoint. I'm leaning towards the shoulder bolts since they would have a screw on the end vs the clevis pin which only has a d-ring keeping the tube on the pin.

If you have them, would you mind hooking me up with the details on the Nylon spacers you got? I looked all over McMaster Carr last night and couldn't find them. I could only find metal shoulder washers.

Thanks again for helping me out.
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