Brake Upgrade discussion

[Viva]

Originally Posted by JWA

I can't see why a stronger ?? rear bar would be detrimental.

Not sure when rear discs became standard on the E-Series, just going by my '00 (drum) and '03 for comparison (disc).

That's very interesting about your '00 with rear drums. I had read that the last year for rear drums in the E-Series (or at least the E-350 cutaway) was 1998. This was borne out in reality as I looked at a 1999 that was built on a 1998 chassis (RV, they are often a year "off" on some of the builds in any given year) and it had rear drums. I then looked at another 1999 of the same brand/model but on the 1999 chassis and it had rear discs (I went by the VIN for chassis year).

My 1997 E-250 SMB had rear drums, but that was to be expected of course.

I actually went into this whole thing "assuming" that the best thing would be to replace those rear drums with discs. Or maybe get some fancy rotors/pads for the front brakes. Then a very knowledgeable and helpful forum member suggested the front end upgrade as his preferred choice out of all the various options (and I could see why once I thought about it). I don't know how any of those other "fixes" would have worked out, but the new front end has worked out really well. And there is something heartwarming about seeing all those brand new, beefy parts under there

What really tipped me into it was calling Quadvan and having a great conversation with John, the owner, culminating in "When could I bring it in?" "How about Monday?" "See you then!" Side bonus was a fall drive up/down 395

Viva

PS: This was probably not applicable to all Ford vans, but on my rig the big Roadmaster rear bar made the rear suspension super harsh. I drove (gingerly!) about 30 miles back to my friend's place where I was staying and thought "man, it wasn't like this before... was it?!" My answer came when I stepped in back and saw numerous things on the floor that hadn't budged in 10,000 miles of driving in varying conditions. But I wanted the benefits of a bar (had put them on a car in the past and loved the effect). So I sourced an E-450 takeout bar from a junkyard which turned out to be a happy medium (stock was no bar; the Roadmaster was 1-1/2", the E-450 one is, IIRC, 1"). But I wouldn't necessarily expect this to be the case on all vans.

[carringb]

Both mine and my dad's vans are 2000 model year vans, and have disc brakes. I was pretty sure '99 was the first year, at least for the E350s.

[carringb]

Originally Posted by JWA

I was kinda under the impression the E450 frames and rear axles were different enough things like sway bars wouldn't fit? If one from the E450 chassis fits my E250 I'll have one of those pretty quick. I'm currently running a Hellwig rear bar but would love something even bigger---ride comfort isn't an issue or concern.

The way the rear sway bar mounts to the frame, the slight frame differences shouldn't matter. If you found some new sway-bar pads to weld to axle, that would be the only real difference, as the E450 has larger axle tubes. But you can also just use the bolt-on pads like the aftemarket sway bars use, or drill and u-bolt the stock pads.

Hellwig also makes a rear sway bar that is quite a bit larger than the stock E450 rear bar. That's what I have.

[JWA]

Originally Posted by carringb

Hellwig also makes a rear sway bar that is quite a bit larger than the stock E450 rear bar. That's what I have.

I'd love to have the E450 or larger rear bar. Since I now know those would physically fit my axle (width-wise) I'll go on the hunt for one, whether new or slightly used, scrap yard et al

I was under the impression an E450's frame and rear axle were so significantly different E250/E350 bars wouldn't fit. When I last spoke with a Hellwig rep IIRC they tried mightily to steer me away from anything other than the E250/E350 offerings.

U-bolts etc are easily obtained but if I had an image of two of the bigger bar installed that would be most helpful.

BTW CarringB---those are seriously scary looking cracks in the wheel. It looks as though the thru-holes for studs are elongated or enlarged---is that an optical illusion or any idea how/when that occurred?

[carringb]

E450 frame vs E250 is just lightly taller, but also much thicker. The other dimensions are all identical. The Hellwig brackets for the E450 will be made for 4" axle tubes. Other than the axle hardware, the rest of the kit will be the same. I simply ordered the large E350 motorhome bar (and 2 showed up.... and they didn't want to bother shipping it back.... so my dad's van got the upgrade too).

On my wheel failure.... The stud holes wallowed out almost immediately after I put them on, because I let too much time go between re-torqueing the outer wheels. The outer wheels are cast AL, so when they were new they were pretty soft. It's only now that they have 150,000 miles that they've been effectively peened and stress hardened enough that they don't loosen up between tire rotations. Yet another reason I'll be switching to all lug-centric wheels soon. I don't thing the wallowed holes really were a factor in the ultimate cracking, as that happened almost 120,000 miles later.

[JWA]

Thanks for the Hellwig info CB---I know we've talked about part numbers etc before but this new bit of info might get me closer to a heavier rear bar.

I'm wondering what sort of lug nuts are used or supplied with lug-centric wheels? Big truck alloy wheels have nuts with integral rotating washers )along with a precise fit), my Volvo S-80 has extended shoulders that essentially cover the studs, fitting very closely to the (stock) wheel holes.

Given the potential for serious safety issues and all that pesky cleaning they require I'll stick with my stock steel wheels.

[carringb]

Stock SRW-rims use the conical lug nuts, as to Vision Hauler wheels I'm planning on getting next. The stock Ford DRW rims all use the lug nuts with integrated flat washers, like the big-rigs use. I wanted to go with OEM Dodge wheels for the new outers (which would also require machining like the new inner steelies), but their Aluminum wheels are on indefinite back order. Supplier problems it sounds like.

[teedublya]

Great info and thanks again to JWA for the write-up. i am looking into doing this upgrade on my 1996 7.3 2wd van. Since I currently have the 8 on 6.5 bolt pattern and ford used the 8 on 170mm pattern from '99 - '08, would i be able to use the rotor/hub assembly from an '09 or later and use all the rest of the part numbers supplied in JWA's write-up? I'm also wondering if anyone knows for sure whether the larger brakes will clear my 16" steelies. Thanks for the help guys!
Tim

[TheLetterJ]

The vans kept the 8 on 6.5" pattern until the end ('14)

[carringb]

Yes, 16" wheels fit. That is still stock size on even the new 2015s.