When to overhaul tranny

[Viva]

Originally Posted by BajaSportsmobile

Is this for sure? The reason I ask is that I thought my (previous) 1997 E-250 RB SMB, with 5.4 had the E4OD transmission. However, as I write that, I'm not 100% positive.

On the other hand, I do for absolutely sure know that my current 1998 E-350 with V-10 has the 4R100. There was some question just before I had it rebuilt because apparently 1998 was the transition year from E4OD to 4R100 and some 1998's had one and some the other. The way the shop found out was to look at a code tag on the side of the transmission (because the transmission ID part of the VIN just means a specific transmission family, and both the E4OD and the 4R100 are in the same family so that was no help).

So maybe 1998 E-250 with the 5.4 is different than 1998 E-350 with the V-10, and maybe my 1997 E-250 with the 5.4 actually didn't have the E4OD (of course now I am curious!)

Once I had the code from the side of the transmission, I found you can "decode" it here, although it's not the easiest reading!

http://elvparts.com/wordpress/for-trans ... -listings/

On the topic of this thread, I don't have the tons of experience that people like Ramsey and Carringb have. On the other hand, I did have a problem with my 4R100 in the 1998 E-350. It was making a ticking sound. Turned out to be a dislodged snap ring. While I was having that repaired, I asked the transmission tech's opinions on what I could/should do to make it more robust "while we were in there." I had no complaints about the functioning (shift points, etc.) so didn't so much want to change that as I did to make it more robust and worry-free. My rig weighs around 10,000# and I often tow a ~4,500# trailer, including mountain passes, so that was my "use case." From memory, here is what was done (not that I probably would have done all this if a transmission problem hadn't necessitated it be removed and opened up in the first place -- that put me at a great transmission shop so it seemed like the time/place to get 'er done. I have a written list, but not nearby at the moment. I'll have to digitize that...

1) New, locking snap ring with machined groove like the trucks have (my van just had dimples, which didn't actually work thus the initial problem).

2) Stronger OD planetary gear.

3) Improved torque converter with better cooling flow (but still has drain plug as my original did).

4) Deep trans pan with drain plug (no more removing pan to drain fluid).

5) I can't remember what (if anything else). I'll have to double check.

Outside the transmission, I added a larger transmission cooler (in place of the original). Tru Cool 40,000

Not that I'd say any of this necessarily needs to be done at random - I never had any problem with the E4OD in my 1997 5.4, and I towed with that as well. If I HAD done anything, the first thing I would have done was put on a bigger cooler - just to keep it a bit cooler when towing (although it stayed under 200ºF, so wasn't bad - why I never did put on a larger cooler in the end).

I think the main thing I would do is get/run a Scan Gauge II (or Ultra Gauge or whatever). Then monitor the transmission temperature. That's what I did on my E4OD, which never had any problems (a friend bought it from me and it is still trundling along at over 150,000 miles, no problems yet). I also run a Scan Gauge II on this rig, and always have "TFT" showing. Just like to keep an eye on it.

[reelchef67]

Wow so much good advice. Thank you everyone . I know I have tran cooler and do have wifi obd reader and iPhone app
I'm using dash command app
I'll crawl under it tomorrow and see if I can get a number off the tranny.
I'm going to get Trans filter etc changed and have the pan checked for the bad stuff..

[JWA]

Originally Posted by BajaSportsmobile

I don't believe in fluid flushes - waste of money. Simply drop the pan, replace the filter, there is where all the bad stuff is trapped, and replace the fluid.

If your fluid is so "burnt" that you are worried about not having gotten it all out, you probably have a bigger problem. You could do a second filter and fluid change for less than the high profit margin "Transmission Flush".

I completely disagree with this philosophy---too many in the transmission repair/rebuilding industry disagree too.

In fact Ford engineers have said the internal filter is a lifetime part, normal or healthy operation never requiring it to be changed.

The flush isn't about extracting "burnt" fluid its about refreshing the 13+ quarts a simple pan drop, filter change and 5-6 quart refresh doesn't address. Just as we drain the engine oil when changing it it makes sense we'd do the same for the transmission. Any hydraulic fluid "wears out" over time and replacing it 5 quarts at a time does little to give the transmission healthy fluid which is its life blood.

I'm sure some see the full flush as a snake oil profit only operation but with everything else we do in the name of preventative maintenance this is just one more thing that doesn't do harm even if its thought to be ill-advised. Because it can be a DIY project its cost effective.

I have to say I'm a bit shocked BajaSMB finds this practice ill-advised---shocked I say!

[E350]

reelchef67 and JWA: I am with BajaSportsmobile on this one. But for a different reason. My understanding (only from reading - no experience) is that the transmission is apparently full of little tiny orifices which can be hurt or plugged when new fluid pushes old fluid into them via a pressurized transmission "flush."

I am, however, a big proponent of replacing the filter and changing the transmission fluid (at about 25K to 50K miles). (I really don't know what I am doing however, and this may just be the result of magical thinking but after going through three E4OD's in my Bronco, I really, really, really want to take care of the 4R100 in my van.)

I am also a big proponent of changing out the E-Series shallow transmission pan and shallow transmission filter on 4x4 or lifted vans with the F-Series deep transmisison pan and deep filter, because it comes with a drain plug on the pan and then after you have done your transmission fluid change you can continue to insert and remove fluid until you have completely diluted the transmission fluid which remained in the torque converter when you dropped the pan to change out the filter.

This post is good reading "Flush Transmission or Not?":

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/13097 ... r-not.html

Especially Mark Kovalsky's (former Ford Automatic Transmission Engineer 1988 - 2007) posts therein and especially post #6 where Mark Kovalsky provides a link to how he changes ATF Fluid.

Finally, there is a big controversy on what transmission fluid to use: Mercon or Mercon V. Or expensive synthetic versions of Mercon V. Sometime after 2002, Ford discontinued Mercon so while in my 2002 owner's manual it explicitly says Do Not use Mercon V, use Mercon, Ford now recommends using Mercon V and so does Mark Kovalsky. I use Napa brand Mercon because it is cheap and I can change it more frequently. Mark Kovalsky says "But Ford is not monitoring the production of Mercon anymore. " So, I may not be getting true Mercon spec'd stuff. I think it must be the same spec as the old stuff though, because Napa or its supplier didn't lose the spec. Ford just stopped monitoring/certifying its production. Again, I have no real basis for my decision, just gut. Your results may vary...

[carringb]

I agree that pressurized flushes should not be performed. They can cause damage. However, a full drain and fill works great. I just pull the cooler outlet line and point it in a bucket, run the motor until about 4 qts is pumped out, fill back up with 4 qts, and repeat 3 more times. It nearly gets all the old fluid out, and its pretty apparent when it changes colors.

I do this the every 100,000 miles instead of doing just the pan fluid every 30k. I also use a Magnefine inline filter, since the pan filter doesn't really filter all that well, and I don't like dropping the pan (since the last time I did, I literally dropped it. All over myself). Would it hurt to do all the fluid every 30k? Not at all. But I'm a cheap a$$ and so far the extended intervals seem to work fine.

[Vegasrandall]

I have heard of cow magnets being epoxied to the inside of the pan. Same results in both cow and tranny.

[Viva]

Originally Posted by carringb

Would it hurt to do all the fluid every 30k? Not at all. But I'm a cheap a$$ and so far the extended intervals seem to work fine.

Yabut you've only got 405,000 hard-working miles on that transmission. Come back when you've given it a real test.

[reelchef67]

Originally Posted by boywonder

Reelchef: If you tell us what motor you have that's a good hint to what trans you probably have......

If you snap and post a picture of the mfr. data plate on the driver's door jamb it will tell us trans, axle ratio, etc.

I found the door jam sticker !
It was under a pleasure way manufacturer sticker..

Can anybody understand the spring codes I can't seem to make sense of it.?
I see a Dana 60 3.73 open axle
4R70W transmission

[E350]

I am sure that you have already run your vin number through the VIN Decoder, but if not here it is:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/vindecoder.php

You may have already found this, but here is an Econoline spring dedoder:

http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/ford-spring-code-listings

But my guess is that the spring code and maybe other things were overridden by the Pleasure Way Manufacturer since your Ford label says "Incomplete Vehicle." Good job posting the picture of the Ford sticker. Maybe post the Pleasure Way sticker too?

Finally, maybe contact Pleasure Way and ask them for the build sheet for your vehicle:

http://pleasureway.com/

(OT, BTW, tonight I just put a new 9mm Ford Racing Spark Plug Wire Set (M-12259-C301) on the 5.8L in the 1995 Bronco using some Ford Racing Wire Dividers (302-637) because I think my 1500 rpm engine miss was due to arcing across wires 8 & 6. Really nice wires! Each wire is numbered along its length and is manufactured in the correct length for that particular wire. Since some of the vans here run the 5.8L or 351w I may do a write up about finding the source of the miss and including the 5.8L wire routing diagram which Conanski pm'd me because I couldn't find it anywhere.)

[JWA]

FWIW any comments I ever make regarding Ford automatic transmissions are pretty much repeating that which Mark Kovolsky has put forward. He's highly respected not only from the engineering background but he also ran his own service garage for a while. Education along with hands-on practical experience gives a depth of knowledge tough to beat.

I do agree any pressurized fluid exchange not performed with the transmission's own pump (engine running) should be avoided--no way to know how much pressure is being applied, whether its potentially damaging.

Good discussion though---a few things to consider I think.