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Old 05-31-2013, 08:45 AM   #1
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6.0L Oil Pump Failure X 2

I know this topic has been brought up in part in many other discussions but I will bring it up here again for a little better understanding of my problem.

The history:
I am the third owner of my 2005 6.0L SMB. Love it. When I purchased it from the previous owner in 2010 I had all the fluids changed throughout the engine and driveline. The engine was throwing the CEL which turned out to be an EGR valve failure. So the EGR valve was replaced and the turbo cleaned. The Ford dealer stated that the coolant was the green coolant and not the gold coolant so they had to replace the coolant with green coolant. All good up to this point. During the walkthrough with the previous owner he stated that the original owner had disconnected the engine coolant lines going to "something" in the back of the van. Thought it was some sort of water heater back there. Anyway, I didn't think much of that at the time. I readily read up on the 6.0L engine and some of the issues. I purchased a scan gauge and view TFT, EOT, FwT, and volts (since I had to replace all of the batteries shortly after purchase but they were 5 years old).

I went to a local service center a couple months ago which charges half of Ford for the last and recommended frequency of oil, fuel filter, and coolant change. They replaced the green coolant with the gold coolant since that is what is recommended by Ford. They also noted that the coolant lines were "looped" to by-pass some hoses going to the back of the conversion part of the van. As described above.

Fast forward to April 2013:
I always watch my EOT and FwT and they historically run within a few degrees of each other if not the same temperature. Sure I see them rise to 225 on long hill climbs but the fan brings them right down. What I have seen on the temps are right on with what others have seen and brought up in other discussions on that topic. So, after the work done by the local service shop I noticed some really high spikes in my EOT. FwT was about 163 degrees and the EOT was 230-235 while driving on the highway with small hills. On flats and in town the temps were closer. So, I went into the Ford dealer and they said the oil cooler pump failed which caused the EGR pump to fail. Replaced both. Filled with gold coolant. All ran fine. Went on week long trip of over 1500 miles with no problems. This past weekend on another week long trip while returning home I noticed the temps again reading 163 on FwT and 225-245 on the EOT. Figured that the oil pump is out again...So, the SMB is at Ford again since the parts are warrantied.

Now, my real question is could the change of fluids from green to gold be causing the gold to gel and plug the oil cooler pump? Twice? Could the lines going "somewhere" that were looped by original owner be holding old green coolant causing the gelling? I guess I should have them removed.

Is there something I am missing? Yes, I have looked into the BPD oil cooler and EGR cooler but wasn't at a place to consider it. Yes, I should now but since the parts are warrantied I again can't at this time. So, I know that is an option but its not going to happen right now.

Thanks in advance for the info. Let me know what other thoughts or questions you might have.

Gus
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:11 AM   #2
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Re: 6.0L Oil Pump Failure X 2

The coolant lines going to the rear sound like they were looped through a flatplate heat exchanger or an Espar heater that has been removed or at least taken out of service. You can call or email SMB and get the original build sheet to tell for sure. If those coolant lines are dead ends, I sure would take them out of the system.

Also since it was a PSD, did it have the Bi-Pass oil filter installed? If so, was it checked out to make sure the supply and return lines are going in the right direction? A 2005 model would fall into the "plumbed the wrong way" era.
See post
http://sportsmobileforum.com/viewtop...p=17313#p17313
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:16 AM   #3
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Re: 6.0L Oil Pump Failure X 2

Thanks. I will look into the mystery lines. What is that flat plate heat exchanger? I will also look into the Bi-Pass oil filter.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:21 AM   #4
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Re: 6.0L Oil Pump Failure X 2

The silicate issue in the gold coolant stems more from neglect and not checking it for 50,000 or100,000 miles. The fact that it's been changed several times would point to something else. Maybe it was part of the warranty work but I would have stuck with an ELC rather than putting it back in. Sorry to hear about the continued issues.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:50 AM   #5
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Re: 6.0L Oil Pump Failure X 2

Having green mixed in with the gold causes more silica to precipitate out of the coolant as it passes through the EGR cooler. It forms tapioca-looking balls that plug up both the EGR and Engine oil coolers. It actually happens pretty quick in the diesels because the EGR cooler can see such high temps.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:35 AM   #6
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Re: 6.0L Oil Pump Failure X 2

I have to agree based on what I have read before. The mix of green and gold is causing early precipitates. The system was "flushed" prior to the second addition of gold coolant but you know you never get all of the fluid out. Also, since the lines going to the dead-ended flat plate heat exchanger can't be flushed and are still looped they probably leach into the new gold coolant to precipitate. So, I will have the cooling system brought back to original spec and remove the flat plate heat exchanger lines and then decide what to do about the green vs. gold coolant since they have both been in the lines.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:37 AM   #7
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Re: 6.0L Oil Pump Failure X 2

Thanks for all the quick replies. It sounds like you agree that the mixing of the coolants and old flat plate heat exchanger are a source of the issues. I will see what needs to be done to get back to spec.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:44 AM   #8
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Re: 6.0L Oil Pump Failure X 2

What's an EGR pump? I didn't know the 6.0 had one. If it were me, I would flush it again and reinstall an ELC coolant.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:39 PM   #9
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Re: 6.0L Oil Pump Failure X 2

Sorry. Typing faster than my brain is thinking. I meant to say EGR cooler not pump. Just so I am clear. The suggestions to replace the coolant with ELC coolant or extended life coolant means use the green coolant or ford gold coolant? I am not sure which is the ELC coolant. Both the green and gold coolants I have been using are Ford products. The gold is just what is recommended by Ford for this engine, even with its precipitate issues, as I am sure you are all aware. Hence the reason I am going to the boards for help. You are all a wealth of knowledge.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:29 PM   #10
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Re: 6.0L Oil Pump Failure X 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by canyonrover
Sorry. Typing faster than my brain is thinking. I meant to say EGR cooler not pump. Just so I am clear. The suggestions to replace the coolant with ELC coolant or extended life coolant means use the green coolant or ford gold coolant? I am not sure which is the ELC coolant. Both the green and gold coolants I have been using are Ford products. The gold is just what is recommended by Ford for this engine, even with its precipitate issues, as I am sure you are all aware. Hence the reason I am going to the boards for help. You are all a wealth of knowledge.
Well, I don't know which is worse. A small amount of the green (not sure if it's ELC) in the Ford Gold or a small amount of Gold in the green. I would think it's the latter. If you haven't already, now is a good time to install a coolant filter. It will also help to remove the casting sand from the block which can also block small passages. Anyway, it's a rather cheap mod to also prevent the same crap from plugging your egr cooler and oil cooler.

http://www.dieselsite.com/2003-200760lc ... rpump.aspx
http://www.dfuser.com/catalog/ford-supe ... nt-kit.php
This one also comes highly recommended on the diesel forums: http://www.iprresearch.com/product.php? ... =59&page=1

Flush out the Ford Gold coolant with a couple bottles of Restore. This is made specifically to clean out the silicate residue. As far as a a silicate free extended life coolant goes you want to make sure it meets the CAT EC-1 specification. I think NAPA carries Rotella ELC or here: http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Pennzoi ... 57630.html
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