Can I just remove the passenger seat?

[Viva]

Originally Posted by Karsten

Do you have pics of the seat base where the tensioners are attached ? I think of putting in aftermarket seats into my 98 and keep the pre-tensioners since the airbag system and the pre-tensioners are supposed to work together.

Geesh, sorry about all the typos - can you tell I was pecking it out on my tiny phone screen? I'll edit now:

I don't have the passenger seat to hand right now, and I don't think I took photos of that area. But I think the drivers side may be useful. I'll have a look and if it's similar to the passenger side, I'll take photos and post them. I can't immediately remember if the pre-tensioners are attached to the Ford stock base or to the Flexsteel seat (base seems more sensible though).

[Viva]

I just took a look at the driver's seat (it's also a Flexsteel). It's slightly different because it is a power adjustable seat, whereas the passenger seat is manual. However, I can see that the pre-tensioner is attached to the seat, not the base. Which makes sense now that I look at it because the place where you "click" the seatbelt in to fasten it is always "right where you expect it," no matter how far forward or aft the seat is adjusted. So, without removing the driver's seat (not going there, LOL) or having the passenger seat on hand, I'd say that either Flexsteel provides the mounting holes or the upfitter made them. Perhaps Flexsteel does it as the seats are made to be van upgrade seats. I don't know if all three (at the time) full sized van makers used similar bolt pattern pre-tensioners or if they might have provided a way for all three if they were different.

Looking at similar Flexsteel seats now (they call them "Class C Captain's chairs), I see they say "This chair is specifically designed for Ford, Chevy and Dodge Class C Motorhomes and Vans." They don't specifically say anything about seatbelts, and I also note they show two arms on them (whereas the driver/passenger seats I have seen only have the inner arm). Maybe they are either only for the rear, or for either position. Might not hurt to give Bradd & Hall a call? They seem like a customer service oriented place from my minimal contact with them.

I have never really looked closely at the pre-tensioners or the seat bases in a Chevy or Dodge van. I can say that the Flexsteel seats I have are on the stock Ford bases (the black metal ones that slope aft).

http://www.braddandhall.com/productcart ... ategory=96

[carringb]

The engineer there said it looked like what "told" the van whether or not there was a passenger in the seat was the connection made when the seatbelt was buckled. This makes sense, as if there is no-one in the seat, the airbag doesn't go off (and yet there is no weight sensor or etc. in the seat).

I think there is some confusion in how the seatbelt switch interacts with the airbags.

FMVSS requires airbags as a passive restraint, in case an adult passenger is not wearing their seatbelt. Deactivating the airbag when the seatbelt us un-buckled would be non-compliant.

Starting in '99 (I think... maybe even as early as '97) Ford went to Dual Stage airbags, along with pre-tensioners. When the seatbelt is fastened, only the 1st (lower force) charge is activated during a crash. This is designed to reduce injury to smaller/belted passengers. However, if the seatbelt is not buckled, then the 2nd (full strength) charge is activated to protect an un-belted occupant.

Now, the newer vans also add in the seat sensor variables. But I don't think that started until 2005, and that may have only been in the Wagons. Cutaways might have stuck with the simpler seat-buckle sensor due to the widespread use of aftermarket seats.

[Abitibi]

This would make sense and help me with my aftermarket seats. But would the passenger airbag deploy if no one is in the passenger's seat?

I'm still pretty sure I could just put a "U" wire in the pigtail coming from the floor to make it thinks the circuit is complete as if the seatbelts were buckled...

[Viva]

Good info, carringb. This part is one thing I was a little bit confused on after my talk with the engineer at the airbag place. So could I ask you a couple of questions?

1) With the seat in and all stock, what happens with the passenger airbag if no-one is sitting there?

2) With the seat in and all stock, how does the system know if someone is sitting in the passenger seat or not?

I take it since nothing changes whether or not the seatbelt is buckled (which makes sense now that you explain it), then my rig with the seat out will behave like the stock system with no-one sitting in the seat. And maybe there is no difference between how it behaves with "someone in" or "no-one in" the seat anyway? Maybe the answer to #2 above will tell me more about that.

BTW, after a drive, airbag light functioning is (still) normal with the dummy plug in and the seat out.

Now I would just like to better understand what "normal" is, just because I like to know, IOW, I'm fine with how my dummy plug system is working, but now I'm curious about how the stock airbag system (which I still have activated) works vis-a-vis person in seat vs. no person in seat.

Viva

PS: My 1997 E-250 SMB had the pre-tensioners, and everything I can see is the same as in my current '98 chassis E-350 cutaway (and for that matter looks the same as a friend's 2003 E-450 cutaway). Of course I don't know about the two-stage vs. the one-stage airbags, but I mean the pre-tensioner and seat plugs looked the same on all of them.

[BajaSportsmobile]

Originally Posted by Abitibi

This would make sense and help me with my aftermarket seats. But would the passenger airbag deploy if no one is in the passenger's seat?

I'm still pretty sure I could just put a "U" wire in the pigtail coming from the floor to make it thinks the circuit is complete as if the seatbelts were buckled...

Yes and no. It will deploy and you cannot use a simple jumper wire - system is looking for a specific resistance level and it requires a diode on one side.

[Abitibi]

We're getting there!

Thanks to all.

[Viva]

Originally Posted by Abitibi

But would the passenger airbag deploy if no one is in the passenger's seat?

Originally Posted by BajaSportsmobile

Yes and no. It will deploy and you cannot use a simple jumper wire

So if I'm understanding this correctly, with the stock Ford airbag system of this era, if there is an incident that triggers the airbag system, the passenger airbag will go off whether or not there is anyone sitting in the passenger seat?

[BajaSportsmobile]

Originally Posted by Viva

So if I'm understanding this correctly, with the stock Ford airbag system of this era, if there is an incident that triggers the airbag system, the passenger airbag will go off whether or not there is anyone sitting in the passenger seat?

Yes, for your vintage of van. It is not a very "smart" system.

When driving, what happens when you or your passenger removes their seat belt?

[carringb]

Yup. What Ramsey said. No matter what the passenger will get punched in the face, but if they don't have their seatbelt on, they get punched harder (still better than going through the windshield). Nobody sitting in the seat? Still lots of noise and dust.