Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-14-2013, 06:15 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Zeta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Preston, ID
Posts: 1,213
Send a message via Yahoo to Zeta
This should be interesting...

Bought this on eBay for $50 shipped. Couldn't resist given my life long obsession with being a Badgerhead.



I like the idea given the rash of vacuum pump failures. Hard to fix on the road. With this I can carry a spare P/S pump and I'll be set.

May even achieve better braking--wonder if the E450 master cylinder will work?

Z
Attached Thumbnails
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1363306345.748151.jpg  
__________________

__________________
'06 RB50 SMB Diesel

https://www.tomsinclair.net
Zeta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 08:07 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
carringb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 4,493
Re: This should be interesting...

Yes you will have higher brake line pressures with hydroboost. Will you get better braking? Only if you aren't already traction limited.

FWIW - The E450 M/C has a larger bore, so it will actually make less pressure than the E350 M/C, given the same force from your foot (assuming either are mounted to hydroboost). But, the E450 M/C will shorten the stroke, so they will feel more responsive.

Brake system specs are on page 17:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...svan_06-ms.pdf
__________________

__________________
2000 E450 dually V10 wagon
carringb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 08:45 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Zeta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Preston, ID
Posts: 1,213
Send a message via Yahoo to Zeta
Re: This should be interesting...

That's very interesting. It seems that the E450 has a larger master cylinder, yet the same front calipers as the E350, why would they do that? I'm missing something.

Z
__________________
'06 RB50 SMB Diesel

https://www.tomsinclair.net
Zeta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 10:05 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
carringb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 4,493
Re: This should be interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeta
That's very interesting. It seems that the E450 has a larger master cylinder, yet the same front calipers as the E350, why would they do that? I'm missing something.

Z
E350 only gets vacuum boost (and E450 has to have the V10 for hydroboost). That's the main difference. Also, front axle weight ratings are often the same, so it makes sense that the fronts would do about the same braking too. The E450s have more swept area on the rear brakes, and bigger calipers in the back.
__________________
2000 E450 dually V10 wagon
carringb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 09:26 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 533
Re: This should be interesting...

Apologies for the hijack Z but do you know if it is possible (CarringB) to get a different model Master Cylinder to increase pressure at the wheel cylinders to improve brake action? One of my complaints about my 1995 E150 (Quigley) is that there is almost no brake 'feel' and that they are really marginally effective at best. The van has a Dana 40 from a period F250 but of course retains the E150 brakes and hubs for the 5 lug pattern.

I do have 4 wheel ABS but nevertheless it is basically impossible to brake hard enough on a dry tar road to fire the ABS. It's like trying to stop fast on an old /2 BMW motorcycle; all that you get when you try an emergency stop is a graceful and steady decrease in speed.

I know there are brake kits out there but I would prefer not to have to spend more money on this van.Yeah right...
witoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:31 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
carringb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 4,493
Re: This should be interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by witoke
Apologies for the hijack Z but do you know if it is possible (CarringB) to get a different model Master Cylinder to increase pressure at the wheel cylinders to improve brake action? One of my complaints about my 1995 E150 (Quigley) is that there is almost no brake 'feel' and that they are really marginally effective at best. The van has a Dana 40 from a period F250 but of course retains the E150 brakes and hubs for the 5 lug pattern.

I do have 4 wheel ABS but nevertheless it is basically impossible to brake hard enough on a dry tar road to fire the ABS. It's like trying to stop fast on an old /2 BMW motorcycle; all that you get when you try an emergency stop is a graceful and steady decrease in speed.

I know there are brake kits out there but I would prefer not to have to spend more money on this van.Yeah right...
Really I think your best bet is an axle swap. By the time you swap out components, you'll be most of the way to a used D60 anyways. Heck, even a Dana 50 will be strong enough, but you can get them with 1-ton brakes, and those are dirt cheap since guys with superduties and Excursions pull them off to upgrade to 60s.

Now.... for the rears you can just install slightly larger diameter wheel cylinders, but you will be moving your brake bias rear-ward, so it may not be helpful.
__________________
2000 E450 dually V10 wagon
carringb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 02:13 PM   #7
Site Team
 
daveb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Turlock Ca
Posts: 9,856
Garage
Re: This should be interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by carringb
Yes you will have higher brake line pressures with hydroboost. Will you get better braking? Only if you aren't already traction limited.
My understanding is that with a dead engine and a hydroboost setup you'll still have some braking, is that correct?

After loosing my brakes due to vac failure I didn't dare to attempt to drive it to the dealer and called for a tow. Not to mention what would happen in the backcountry if you lost your brakes but if you could limp out of the hills it would be a huge advantage.

Is there any make-shift solution to getting some braking back if you loose vacuum with or without the engine running?

Part of this is my worry about being towed by another vehicle out of a 4x4 trail. W/O brakes you'd be SOL.
__________________
2006 Ford 6.0PSD EB-50/E-PH SMB 4X4 Rock Crawler Trailer

Sportsmobile 4X4 Adventures..........On and off road adventures
daveb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 02:23 PM   #8
Site Team
 
Ford_6L_E350's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Washington - Ridgefield
Posts: 4,725
Re: This should be interesting...

Hydroboost needs the engine running to power the PS pump. No engine, no hydroboost

Mike
__________________
SOLD04 EB350 Custom Floorplan
6.0 PSD 4.10 Posi
Salem Kroger coil spring 4wd
SMB Trailer w/AT Air Suspension
Alaska to Key West, Labrador and more
130685 miles 16.65 mpg average

Prostate cancer survivor. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11099
2015 VW GTI
Leaving CA for WA
Ford_6L_E350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 03:24 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
carringb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 4,493
Re: This should be interesting...

Ford's hydroboost has a backup hydraulic accumulator. It's the silver or blue canister thingy hanging off the M/C. It only allow a couple more applications if hydraulic pressure is lost. Also, since it has a larger M/C bore, it actually takes quite a bit more stomp power to bring a hydroboost rig to a stop if you lose power. I almost went through a house in an F650 one day, because its electric pump did not come on. On that note.... the vans (or really any light truck) don't have a backup electric-hydro pump like the MDT trucks have. The F650 hydroboost unit is very similar, but as I found out they aren't fail-proof. And for extended driving without engine power, I think the electric hydro pump could draw down the batteries quick. you would probably have to run a 12-volt umbilical to the tow vehicle for any extended towing.
__________________
2000 E450 dually V10 wagon
carringb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2013, 02:14 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 533
Re: This should be interesting...

Thanks CarringB,

the front D44 axle on my Quigley is quite the complex of welded on plates, brackets, spring perches and such. While the D50 might fit it won't have any of the unique Quigley bits so would require me to get and install a UJoint ofroad front end. I really am trying to avoid major surgery if I an help it, the van is quite enough of a money pit just to drive around, never mind replacing the whole front end, suspension and all.

Still, the info was helpful, if the brakes cannot be improved so easily, maybe a brake kit is the simplest. I will have to look into that more closely.

Talking of D50's though, I noticed that they made one variant with some sort of coupling at each end of the diff, allowing for some independent wheel travel. Seems like that might not be a bad idea. I have never really understood why solid axles are considered better for off road since any twist or lift is by default transferred to the other side of the vehicle. Wait, I am getting really off subject here, maybe I'll post this in the new Ford van debate since it has IFS.
__________________

witoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

» Sportsmobile Registry

Babe

Babe

El Guapo Rojo

SteveInLA
Add your Sportsmobile
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sportsmobile SIP or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×