Yet another BFG Tire fail.

[Greggd]

It is all about the weights that the BFG's are subjected to ! I have owned numerous sets of this tire and never had anything but great service out of them . On the other hand when you subject a D rated Tire to the weights and rigors of a vehicle reqiring an E rated Tire you are prone to failure ! I am amiss as to the reason that a manufacture would provide a Tire on a vehicle that is at it's maximum when you take delivery of it , with additional weight of fuel , water ,recovery items and personal belongings you have now greatly exceeded the weights that the Tire was designed for ! Both of my failures occurred in less than 20,000 miles and both times while fully loaded and on trips , thankfully I caught them in time . I am now running the more aggressive E rated TOYO's and other than a little more highway noise I am very pleased with them .
Greggd

[ANZAC]

What about the low mileage BFG E rated failures?

[Greggd]

I have no knowledge or experience with an E Rated BFG tire , they were not available at the 2007 time of our build . All three of my children have Quigleys with the BFG tires and are having very satisfactory service out of them !
Greggd

[vlamgat]

Originally Posted by ANZAC

What about the low mileage BFG E rated failures?

To your question - I had an E rated Michelin fail. I am not a speed freak and never exceed 65 for lots of other reasons besides the tire limitations. I also cover the tires whenever an all day sun exposure is on the cards and the van is stored in darkness. The tire had 12000 miles and was made in 2008 but fitted in 2009.

This might suggest that to eliminate the tire construction from the blow out cause, we should be fitting G or G rated tires if there were such things. But these would have to be inflated to 100 psi and finding a means to do that is challenging.

I have yet to find a portable inflator that can handle airing up from 70 to 80 psi without reaching its time limitation that requires a 10 minute cool down. Any suggestions in that arena would be appreciated as many claims are made on pump performance but I have yet to find one that delivers.

[daveb]

I have gone through 2 sets of D BFG AT with my 11,200+ lb vehicle and never had a problem. Then I went with E rated and still no trouble but I'm fairly sure I ran the at too high (75psi) and the rubber wore faster than the D's. But no failures.
Most of the vans coming out of SMBW had BFG's in 2006. The rims were almost all American's. I asked why American and was told there aren't many availiable to handle the weight. BFG's were recomended because they prefered them in AT tread. D's because thats all that was made. Besides most vans weigh about 8500. Mine came off the line at 10,000+ After 2008 I saw all sorts of different tires coming on the rigs. Different rims too.

Still, rather than continuing be a test subject for pushing BFG tires to the limit on an 11,000lb vehicle, I switched to Toyo. Correct move? Don't have a clue, and time will tell.

[vlamgat]

Unless you are running your E rated tires at 80 psi, they are not rated for sufficient load to carry your 11000 lb van:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/ ... ?techid=55

I am not sure what the Toyo Load Index is but it will have to be well over 110 to handle the potential axle load of nearly 3000 lbs. Every table I have seen shows that 80 psi is required for a 10000 lb load or 2500 per axle. Bearing in mind that more of the weight is on the rear tires, the load likely to be slightly higher than the average. So reducing the inflation especially in high ambient and surface temperatures is asking for trouble.

And yet I was able to run Load Rated D tires at 65 psi for 2 years until the belts began to separate telling me that irrespective of the specs, they just used to build tires more robustly in the 90s then they do today. Hence making me think that whether they are Toyo, Goodrich or Michelin, we all ought to be running F rated tires to deal with the reduction in quality.

Remember too that there are no oversight standards on these ratings. The manufacturers use their own. So an E rated Toyo may indeed have a potential load higher than a Michelin. And that a Toyo built 2 years ago may also be a better (as in able to bear a load for a reasonable mileage at surface temperatures over 130 degrees) than a Toyo built today. Just because of internal changes in specs. This issue of OEM veracity also applies to the Wear Index illustrating in part why a 250 rated tire by on OEM lasts only half as long as another mileage wise.

[ANZAC]

Originally Posted by vlamgat

Unless you are running your E rated tires at 80 psi, they are not rated for sufficient load to carry your 11000 lb van:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/ ... ?techid=55

I am not sure what the Toyo Load Index is but it will have to be well over 110 to handle the potential axle load of nearly 3000 lbs. Every table I have seen shows that 80 psi is required for a 10000 lb load or 2500 per axle. Bearing in mind that more of the weight is on the rear tires, the load likely to be slightly higher than the average. So reducing the inflation especially in high ambient and surface temperatures is asking for trouble.

Toyo load table for 285/75 16, 3110lb capacity per tire at 60PSI.
You can get 3750 per tire at 80PSI but even the ATX Mojaves are only rated at 3100lb per wheel so I would question the actual axle weight... At 80 PSI you are either just over inflating the tires (depending on the size) or overloading the wheels if you truly need more than 3100lb per tire.

http://cache.toyotires.com/sites/defaul ... nTable.pdf

Do you have 6220lb on your rear axle? Depends on the front rear distribution. Is the rear axle even rated for that? My van is about 8000lb with half tank of gas.

[Silver350]

Originally Posted by twogone

I know why they are so good because... if you ever just look at them, it is clear that there is a major difference between them and any other tire that I have seen.

X- Ray vision?
I'd say neat tread pattern that has more to do with marketing than anything else.


I've noticed the terms "blow out" "sidewall blow out" and "tread separation" all being used while describing tire failure. I don't care about BFG one way or the other, but events being described may not have anything to do with the tire itself and unless your study includes "types of failures per thousands of miles traveled", this is all just anecdotal evidence. A perfectly healthy tire can pick up a nail and loose just enough air to run just a little hotter until you feel a wiggle, but by then its too late. Or you could air down and run too fast for the PSI and think nothing of it and then months later at full PSI ( or so you tell yourself, people rarely check it weekly)
that POS blows out! I'm guessing that when you run underinflated you must void the warranty.

[vlamgat]

I think you are correct about the loading. Now that I look at the load tables and do the Math, I should be running at 70-75 psi and not 80 based on a Michelin 245/45/16 E rated tire. I always inflated to the maximum to provide a saftey margin against temperature and speed. At least that is what my trucker buddies tell me. They say that the value of being at a lower inflation when the tire is operating in the last quartile of its rated performance is immaterial and that one should err on being overinflated vs under. Put another way: if the rated load could be covered at 65 psi (D rating) then there is no valu in being at 80 and anything at or just over 65 is ok on an E rated tire. But once you get out of the 65 or "D" range, just stick 80 in the thing and all will be well.

Hmm - your reference to the Toyo (and my view of the Michelin equivalent) now makes me think otherwise.

[vlamgat]

Originally Posted by Silver350

X- Ray vision?
I'd say neat tread pattern that has more to do with marketing than anything else.


I've noticed the terms "blow out" "sidewall blow out" and "tread separation" all being used while describing tire failure. I don't care about BFG one way or the other, but events being described may not have anything to do with the tire itself and unless your study includes "types of failures per thousands of miles traveled", this is all just anecdotal evidence. A perfectly healthy tire can pick up a nail and loose just enough air to run just a little hotter until you feel a wiggle, but by then its too late. Or you could air down and run too fast for the PSI and think nothing of it and then months later at full PSI ( or so you tell yourself, people rarely check it weekly)
that POS blows out! I'm guessing that when you run underinflated you must void the warranty.

Of course you are right. There is neither science nor fact prevailing here. And that is the bane of our lives because we depend on these tires more acutely for safety than almost anything else. The insane speeds of the 18 wheelers crawling up my rear end with 20,000 lbs of van and trailer that might need to change direction or stop quickly but depending on these tires for control. All in the context of there being virtually nothing one can do to avoid the surprise deflation/blow out/delamination/valve fail that makes life as interesting as flying non certified single engined aircraft across the Gulf. You know you are ok only because you expect to be ok. But Hope was never a good safety strategy and yet that is all we embrace with these vans.

When my blow out happened (and there was a bang) I was in the left lane and pulled onto the left shoulder of an expressway. Within 20 seconds of stopping I was hit by a pick up mirror because the width of the vehicle extended 4 inches (measured by the cops) over the shoulder line. I could not pull over to the right side because the traffic would not give me room and the blown tire was laying waste to the van as the steel belts thrashed around. I know the tire was not overinflated before I departed 20 minutes earlier (digital gauge reading of 79.?) and the tires were in good condition. So whatever the reason it blew, it was a wake up moment.

I should add that I have had 4 blow outs in the last 12 months on my trailer. All Carlisle D rated tires. All set at 63/65 psi. However in their case I understand they are made in China and the D rated batch made in 2008 and 2009 have produced a large number of blow outs. Not enough perhaps for a law suit (too much research required and no evidence remaining) but enough for the internet to be peppered.

So I think your down to earth coment terminates the value of any further input on my part. But to any future readers of this string I offer this warning: you are statistically safe in your SMB but not nearly at the level you would be in a passenger car simply because in large part your tires are not built to the standards that can with stand the stresses you will place upon them in the same way as you passenger car.