charger inverter info

[hogasm]

Originally Posted by 1der

Nice score on the Honda!

I went with the Samlex EVO-2212, but that is overkill for your application. Check donrowe.com for other manufacturers/units. I was looking for a high end unit which come down to Magnum or Samlex.

Do you already have an inverter? What are you planning to run on 120v?

That is one nice unit Ider

I use the van at work as well as play so a small microwave and the ability to recharge drill batteries will be done from the inverter when power is not available. Funny I say we will use microwave since we did not use it once in 19 days on the road

[86Scotty]

Those are nice but I haven't seen any need for a pure sine (or it's cost) yet.


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[daveb]

Originally Posted by 86Scotty

Those are nice but I haven't seen any need for a pure sine (or it's cost) yet.


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Here are a few issues with modified wave converters... this is off the Samplex web site:
Some examples of devices that may not work properly with modified sine wave and may also get damaged are given below:

• Laser printers, photocopiers, magneto-optical hard drives
• The built-in clocks in devices such as clock radios, alarm clocks, coffee makers, bread-makers, VCR, microwave ovens etc may not keep time correctly
• Output voltage control devices like dimmers, ceiling fan / motor speed control may not work properly (dimming / speed control may not function)
• Sewing machines with speed / microprocessor control
• Transformer-less capacitive input powered devices like (i) Razors, flashlights, night-lights, smoke detectors etc (ii) Re-chargers for battery packs used in hand power tools. These may get damaged. Please check with the manufacturer of these types of devices for suitability
• Devices that use radio frequency signals carried by the AC distribution wiring
• Some new furnaces with microprocessor control / Oil burner primary controls
• High intensity discharge (HID) lamps like Metal Halide lamps. These may get damaged. Please check with the manufacturer of these types of devices for suitability
• Some fluorescent lamps / light fixtures that have power factor correction capacitors. The inverter may shut down indicating overload

I've yet to have an issue. Most things seem to work but I do notice some 110 power supply dongles run much warmer. I'd bet most vans running inverters are using modified types and I've never heard any complaints. I mean my sewing machine is running fine

[hogasm]

I thought if a charger had an end like this it would clean up the wave and it would not matter if you had pure sine or modified wave

[ShuttlePilot]

Greetings hogasm. It sounds like your main goal was to have a battery maintainer but then started thinking about including an inverter as a bonus. Please clarify if I'm way off. May offer a few thoughts.

If all your wanting is to maintain your battery health then a simple battery maintainer like a Deltran Battery Tender will do this cheaply. I've seen these in up to 5 amp which would be enough if plugged in for several days in the driveway and can safely be plugged in all the time. Battery health obtained.

If your looking for an inverter than that will need some planning. Couple thoughts on inverters which comes from my own experience and from my off grid friends. Go a little larger than you think you initially need. Inverters are like horsepower, at first it will be great but soon you wish you had a little more. Next I would steer clear of all the inverters that have that extruded anodized aluminum housing. Those are all made in the same place and the guts are all very similar, i.e. flimsy. My solar friends and I have all gone down that road and all ended up buying Magnum Energy inverters. The exceptions are folks that have old, like 10 year old and older xantrex inverters which are still working and the large 2000 watt plus Samlex inverters that have the sheet metal cases. Assumed that these were made differently.The Magnums are expensive! I agree, but they work and I wasted some money on the cheaper inverters before accepting what others were telling me. Finally concerning modified vs pure sine. If your going to all the work, time, learning about inverters, cost of cabling, etc why wouldn't you go pure sine and be done with it. You'll never have to think,"should I plug this into the van, will it work on modified, is it going to shorten the life of my electric device, etc." with pure sine you'll just plug stuff in and go.

I heard this same stuff from folks that had some experience with newer inverters, I ignored them and eventually came to similar conclusions after spending some money. I just wanted to pass it on in hope that others may not need to go down the same road.

I realize this may spark some discussion.
I support all of you in your decisions. It's all an adventure. Please share what you find.

Eric

[86Scotty]

Good info Eric, and I totally agree except for one thing. The horsepower always-wanting-more comparison. I have found that as more and more things have gone 12v due to the modern on-the-go lifestyle I use my inverter less and less. I never once have needed more than the 1500 watt mine provides. I really only need enough to run my microwave. Most fridges are going to 12v if they aren't propane, everyone seems to be running a little solar and bigger and better batteries on overlanding rigs, and chargers for everything I used to do on AC are now mostly 12v too (camera battery chargers, laptop chargers, phone/tablet/etc. of course)

I, of course, do agree that a good bit of thought and planning should go in to such a large purchase so you never have to redo it. Maybe 2000 watts is the sweet number for most vandwellers?

[daveb]

Originally Posted by hogasm

I thought if a charger had an end like this it would clean up the wave and it would not matter if you had pure sine or modified wave

It's been discussed before. I've just noticed some of my small plug in AC dongles seem to run hotter on a modified wave compared to my pure sinewave. I doubt the output of the dongle is dirty but its life might be compromised. It might take some research to find out "what likes what" just to make sure. You know how the internet is.

I basically agree with S-Pilot that a Pure sinewave is a good idea but I have used modified inverters (mainly very small ones) for some items. IIRC some electric blankets have problems with MSW inverters along with micro processor controlled things and digital clocks. I don't know how say a modern coffee maker might react to a modified wave.

There are pros and cons when using a high amp shore charger but IMO any charging session should be monitored. I just feel a bit safer using something like a lower amp maintenance charger similar to a Battery Minder. Solar supplies the low amp charging and I rarely have to kick on the big boy.

[ShuttlePilot]

86Scotty I didn't realize at first the OP was considering a 1500 watt inverter. A lack of thoroughness on my part. Yes, a person can definitely go too big for all the reasons you pointed out. When I mentioned go a little bigger I was thinking a person that would be considering something less than 1000 watts. I chose a 1000 watt inverter for my van for the same reasons you mentioned and the following . I only have (currently) one 4D 200ah, made of the finest recycled Chinese lead, battery and when I use my 600w coffee maker it will really drop the DC voltage, especially when the battery is 32*. This is a big problem with going too big of inverter as it's amazing how much battery it takes to supply the 100+amps and at a reasonable voltage. Second I don't have room for a microwave and didn't want to tempt myself to pry one in if I thought I had enough inverter. And cabling, it takes really big cable to move those high amp numbers without loosing voltage at 12v. Or having to go to a higher voltage. Lastly the bigger the inverter the more draw in standby.
A 1500 watt inverter is a great larger size if someone would like to live more like small gernerator is available. A 2000+ watt is for someone that has a specific need for it not general use. This is my opinion for vans, the Class A folks regularly have 4k boosting inverters because they are houses on wheels.

daveb, most of my off grid friends started out on modified sine mostly because of budget and were successful accepting the limitations. When there homesteads grew with their funds they switched to pure sine but kept their mod wave for shop equipment or stuff that wasn't an issue. Some of those really old mod waves are bomb proof.

Anyway, I try to post to the forum from the perspective of contributing to a group reference for future folks and observers tempted to try projects. And I encourage everyone to go out and build stuff.

Eric

[hogasm]

While in Daytona for Bike Week this spring I planned on installing lithium batteries in my motorcycles. While talking to the lithium battery rep he recommended this charger/maintainer. It is a 6amp unit and he said it would be large enough to maintain my house batteries in the van. We did not take into account the usage of running a 12v refrig in 90 degree heat and maintaining 2-105amp batteries.
Wht brought all this up is that the other day the unit showed bad battery on the screen. I charged the bank up with another larger charger and took them to NAPA where they tested good. So I thought that maybe I should go larger on the charger part and include an inverter into the system. Space is critical in my layout..modified EB50. I can load full sheets of plywood under the bed and close the rear doors.
I like to keep the van in the garage while not in use so solar would not do me any good during those times unless I mounted the panels outside and set up a cable to connect them to the van. I mentioned earlier they are connected to an ACR when the van is running for charging.

[boywonder]

If you are not running the fridge while parked in the garage any small maintainer should be sufficient....and the small units have less chance of cooking batteries.....do you have a CO detector? The parasitic current draw of those is small....just need to be replacing at lesat what's coming out.

As Shuttle Pilot mentioned above, if you want a big inverter, you need corresponding big house batteries (and cabling) to support it. Otherwise, when pulling lots of watts (like 2000W), the battery voltage will sag and the inverter will go into low voltage shutdown, usually around 11.5V or so.