Help Isolating an Electrical Gremlin - Page 2

**daveb** · 05-12-2015, 10:34 PM

Randy at SMBW said he could not add a cutoff switch for the primary standard amp as compared to my secondary sub woofer amp that I can control. I guess with the standard amplifier switch off it will not pass music through it. So if I'm using the stereo as a surround sound, the stereo + the primary amp pulls a couple of amps where if I didn't have that amp in the loop the total amperage of the radio itself would be much less. This all depends on the volume level of course but even with no music playing it still pulls more than just the stereo on. It's kind of like an inverter; even if the inverter is not supplying power to anything, just being on sucks up power. I don't turn up the volume to high levels unless I'm outside or driving. The sub woofer amp pulls a lot more and doesn't need to be on while I'm using the surround sound and in fact supplies way too much bass. It sounds better with it off and keeps the power draw down with it in the off setting. Trippin down the road is another situation and I want it on all the time.

DUKCSUN · 05-13-2015, 06:33 AM

Yeah, it makes sense. With our primary amp, the "built -in" amplifier for the stereo is bypassed and only signal is sent down the line to the amp. No power, no music. With a secondary sub amp, you can just flip it off and still get some sound.

I guess the one good thing I discovered in all this troubleshooting is that SMB installed my Link 10 monitor completely wrong so I no longer bother looking at it for any realistic diagnostic information. That sucks. I discovered that the charging current doesn't flow back through the shunt and therefore the monitor never knows that the batteries were charged. Yes, I can reset it every-time I unplug and go somewhere but I don't know what other wires were hooked up incorrectly so I think I will simply use it as an expensive volt meter (which seems to work fine)

I am very, very tempted to simply re-do the electrical in the entire van but I'm resisting that temptation at the moment. Hopefully the feeling will pass....

DUKCSUN · 05-13-2015, 07:19 AM

This is the first time I've ever really had the need to rely on the Link 10 for any meaningful data and once I figured out that it was hooked up wrong, I now know why I was getting all the strange readings.

So, I guess we shall see what the next step is.

The good news is, the feeling I had about re-doing the electric has passed for the moment. But its been replaced with the thought of driving to Fresno and dropping it off at SMB with hopes they can fix it.

DUKCSUN · 05-13-2015, 12:25 PM

So, it is clear that the 1.1 -1.2 draw that I was seeing was the Sure Power staying "activated" for a pretty long amount of time AFTER I disconnected the shore power from the system.

I'm thinking that the new battery is so new, that the voltage is actually staying above the cut-off voltage point and therefore keeping the sure power switch flipped.

I am going to experiment a bit with this and see if that is, in fact, the issue. If it is staying on indefinitely, then clearly that would drain down the whole system prematurely.

But I can definitely say that when I disconnected the ground wire from the sure power, I heard it disconnect and my amp draw went to basically nil.

Greg's idea about installing a switch on that ground wire to cut out the battery separator is looking like a good idea.....

**daveb** · 05-13-2015, 01:13 PM

Even my Blue Sea separator does that. The separator will not open until the float voltage drops to 12.8 volts. At times where I'm not running anything it can take several minutes before the float level dissipates & reaches 12.8. At that point in time I don't know if the surepower pulls amperage to keep the solenoid closed but suspect it does and why it feels hot to the touch. After reaching 12.8 I would think it opens and quits pulling power. Greg is much more familiar with those than I am. The Blue Sea on the other hand is a magnetic latch type relay and only pulls power during its opening and closing operation which is almost instantaneous plus does not produce much heat or amp draw.

It's also good to know that SMBW did have the Surepower units set to automatically combine to assist start while cranking over the engine. I didn't like that and they wired it to a momentary push button on the dash so I had control of jump starting. After they did that with mine they started installing dash switches on the newer builds. But I was still having issues with the Surepower separator and had them install the Blue Sea unit. It wasn't long after that where they started installing the Blue Sea separators as standard equipment. The Blue Sea 7622 has full controls on the separator itself so there is no need for a jump button at the dash. If you need to jump the vehicle you simply go back and manually combine the batteries using the separator's operation switch. You just need to remember to put it back to normal operation after the engine starts.
Greg's switch install on the Sure Power separator interrupting the ground basically turns the separator on or off. But if you want to jump start the vehicle you would need to install a different switch to force the separator to close manually (unless it was set up to auto-jump). IIRC he went over this. Of course there are a few different ways to configure the system.
Hope this helps.

DUKCSUN · 05-13-2015, 01:56 PM

Oh yeah, his detailed video was clear. Generally speaking I'm more inclined to replace the separator with a Blue Sea rather than try to jury rig and work around a part that isn't performing how I would prefer.

I may look into replacing the sure power. Does the blue seas unit get hot/stay hot?

I am really surprised by how hot the sure power unit got. I was blissfully unaware for what, 8 years, so I'm not that bent up about it. But if there is heat, there is energy being used and that I don't like.

Scalf77 · 05-13-2015, 02:34 PM

I am in the process of completing a video on the Blue Sea unit.. But, to answer your question no the blue sea unit will not get hot, as it is magnetic latching relay. It is still a bidirectional relay, like the surepower 1315. The terminals are larger so you will have to replace the lugs on your existing cables. You can make the install as simple as you like with just a ground wire, or add a switch to give you On, Auto,and OFF capabilities.

I believe the Blue Sea to be a much better unit. feel free to PM me if you have questions.

greg

DUKCSUN · 05-13-2015, 07:11 PM

Sent. Thanks

DUKCSUN · 05-15-2015, 08:50 PM

Well, I don't know if I killed my Gremlin, but I now have a nice, much cooler (temperature-wise) battery separator thanks to DaveB and Scalf77's recommendations. Big props to Greg for his excellent drawings and step by step instructions for installation.

The Blue Sea appliance went in pretty easy and without much fuss and muss.

Haven't had a chance to really use it over a long period of time but its working now and seems to be a solid piece.

Sorry, can't get the stupid pictures right side up.

Scalf77 · 05-15-2015, 09:23 PM

Looks really nice, glad I could help.

greg