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Old 03-07-2024, 12:02 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctictraveller View Post
If I’m reading your chart correctly, it looks like there is a maximum current draw of 30 amps when cooling on 12 Vdc. That’s not as bad as I originally thought, and my 200 Ah of lead acid batteries could conceivably run it for three hours or so before reaching a 50% discharge level while a 200ah lithium setup should go double that.
I have spent quite a bit of time trying to characterize the behavior, so that table is just a summary.

However, you are correct 30A in MAXIMUM COOL is a good number. The actual current goes up to about 50A for 1-2 minutes at most (it is not long and doesn't figure into an average MAX load current) and then drops to 30Amps. This is when you are not running against the setpoint but rather just FLAT out which is what i got when I was not recirculating conditioned air before the box was put on.

Once I installed the box to get recirculated air, the unit dropped down to where it was operating against the freezing limit and consumption dropped to 22A. So the bulk of my testing was under an event cover (no direct sun) the ambient temp was 77-80 degF, the box would get below 40 degF. This is essentially dropping the temp by 40 degF and turning my 20" on-side box into a refrigerator.

I tested ECO mode with F3 and the average current was 8.4 amps!

For heating (57degF Amb and 87 degF in box) at least, I can mathematically project from measurements for a 20" cube to a 70" cube of the same cardboard. The average current of 10 amps (40 peak) goes to 19 amps averagte (bigger volume to heat). I know people want to have real installed performance, but that is subject to so many variables that it is not useful for analytic comparisons.

We get 110 deg+ here in (Tuscon) the summer and the insulation of the van is going to play a big part. Additionally, the A/C unit could use some reflectex and foam to improve the insulation of the compressor and evaporative core.

I have to say that this A/C is a game changer in terms of noise level. There are two fans. One is the recirculation blower fan, the other is a waterproof blade fan similar in shape to a radiator cooling fan. It pulls air up through the condenser and up away from the unit. It says it is rated 12V 120W. The most I have seen it pull is about 6.6 amp (probably combined with the blower fan)

This is the display on the unit.
The partial circle is FAN Only mode (it is pretty efficient) F1 (1.5A), F2 (2.2A), F3 (2.9A), F4 (4.0A), F5 (6.6A)
The 3 Arrows in circle is a heat Mode (uses FAN and TEMP control) (Max 42 Amps)
There is a cresent moon for Night mode. Not sure what it does.
Then there is a ECO mode (in the position where there is a Sun) (Uses FAN an TEMP) (MAX 22Amps without recirculation)
The snowflake is A/C mode (Uses FAN and TEMP) MAX 35 Amps (excluding startup without recirculation)
I sent the numbers above to another moment before I did the box to recirculate conditioned air.

After that, the MAX A/C was limited at 0 dgC at the evaporative core. 22A was the typical current draw but it dropped to 7A periodically.

In ECO mode for example the temp would be controlled to less than MAX and it averaged less than 10 amps.

The same with the Heating, where when the PTCs are on it draws 40A but when cycling off results in a drop to 10 amps average.

These numbers (unless otherwise noted) are for the 20" box.


Unless you are exceeding the capacity and the unit can't get to a setpoint, it will be at 22 amps and 200 amp-hrs AGM with 100 amp-hr usable is close to 5 hours.

Worst case 30 Amps (which I have not seen since adding the box) would be 3.3 hours

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Old 03-07-2024, 12:10 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by posplayr View Post

For purposes of discussion, I chose this unit for a representative 120VAC AirCon.
  • RecPro RV Air Conditioner
  • 13500 BTU : ‎RP-3501
  • 1490 watts
  • 115V @ 15.5A =1782 Watts
  • 65 dB
  • 73 lbs
  • 39” x 26” x 13.5” (LxWxH)

The advertisement claims: "Low power usage. This air conditioner draws a max of 1550W compared to the leading competitor @ 1750W."

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...JOE3FVDYM&th=1


12/24VDC AirCon:
The latest generation of Chinese AirCons are 12/24V using Scroll type variable frequency compressors. I chose this unit for a representative 12/24VDC AirCon.
  • Generic 12VDC 13K BTU
  • Scroll variable Frequency Compressor
  • 2300W (Cool) 1000W (Heat)
  • Power 850W 30-70A @ 12V
  • (360-840 Watts)
  • 23 dB
  • 33 lbs
  • ‎31” x 29” x 7” (LxWxH)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...N74JAG9Y&psc=1
When I posted the comparison above there was a giant disparity between the Noise levels. 65 db (for the RecPro) vs 23 db (Treeligo).

I don't think that is a misprint although I don't know how each was measured. The noisiest thing on the Treligo is the condenser fan, which is like a radiator fan on low. You will not hear it much inside where the blower fan is.

The compressor is silent! To get an idea, think in terms of the noise level of an electric car compared to a gasoline engine. With the heat on there is no condenser fan and the noise is almost imperceptible at 3F (middle range).
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Old 03-08-2024, 06:44 AM   #53
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I'll be curious to see how this works out for you. I took a chance on a Mr. Cool mini split unit for my commercial truck application recently based on the growing number of people I've seen doing this. The big question is how long it will last before it rattles apart.

Your unit is made for a mobile application and should be better of course.

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Old 03-08-2024, 09:52 AM   #54
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Your unit is made for a mobile application and should be better of course.



86Scotty,

Yes, it is made for mobile applications or more importantly being used that way. The manufacturer's rep said a year ago that they were very popular and selling out 2000 per month.

I posted some more pictures of what it looks like inside. The first thing of importance for durability is that it is relatively light. Amazon lists it as 56 lbs. Secondly, a 10K lbs vehicle is not going to transmit that much shock and vibration into the roof.

In my case, although the roof is supported by a steel 1"x2" steel structure, it is still a (interior) foam-covered fiberglass roof. The tires and suspension will absorb most road inputs. That said, we can assess how well it is designed for a mobile application.

In the pictures, you can see that the compressor is rubber-mounted (laterally). I suspect this is to avoid the shock of a vertically mounted cushion that compresses and puts the full shock through the rubber mount ( this is the main problem with rubber mounts). The chromed steel compressor mounting plate is cantilevered to avoid hard side-to-side lateral shocks. Beyond some near-imperceptible electronic noise, the compressor is silent. It is nothing like the typical "box of rocks" window a/c units.

The manual indicates the compressor is capable of continuous operation. If there was not the rubber portions of the coolant connections, I would be more worried about work hardening and cracks in the hard fittings and less about the compressor. There could be latent factory (infant mortality )defects in the compressor, but that is why I'm trying to put some hours on the unit while in warranty.

The base of the unit consists of two parts. The rear is like a 14 ga steel and it is crewed to a stiff plastic base that makes up the majority of the front portion. There is about 1/2"-3/4" of dense foam covering the whole bottom but there is supposed to be a gasket that surrounds the perimeter of whatever through hole the vehicle roof has. The unit is pulled down onto the roof with mounting brackets that straddle the hole from beneath. So this could hardly be called a hard mount. Adding more foam (and not over-torquing) would give more compliance to avoid transmitting shock to the unit.

One thing of particular concern is the relatively fragile styrene insulating cover for the evaporator and blower motor. I pulled the electronic fan off yesterday because it was making a little premature noise. So I think I will try and do an EPOXY fiberglass layup on that Styrene cover with a couple of layers of 2 for 3 oz cloth. On mine, the corner of the cover broke off already, but it is easily epoxied together. This is probably from shipping although I could have done it with my handling. I have worked with fiberglass quiet a bit in my windsurfing years, so I think I can probably do this without making a huge mess.

FOR ANYONE NOT FAMILIAR, if you use POLYESTER RESIN it will melt the Styrine or worse. Only use an EPOXY resin for the layup on Styrine FOAM.

As far as that fan, I ended up trying to pull the fan blade off the motor by losing the main nut that holds the blade to the motor. I backed it off about 1/6 of a turn and it seemed to reduce the preload on the bearing and the noise stopped. The noise was not bad, but given the motor was brand new it was probably only going to get worse. If the unit is going to sit outside for an extended time, I would suggest getting a cover to avoid the sun beating down on that fan.

The primary refrigerant flow is made of stiff components that are connected by rubber hoses. So any relative motion will be accommodated in the hose flex.

I did notice some wire chafe protection getting put to the test. So there is a need to better secure the wiring (e.g. zip ties)to avoid cutting though wire insulation.
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Old 04-13-2024, 12:59 PM   #55
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FYI,
If you want to use an window unit type AC these are super quiet DC inverter type that are 35% more efficient. They are still rated at about 750 watts but with the inverter technology you should be able to throttle back the power consumption by setting the thermostat appropriately.

Part Number: MAW08V1QWT

  • Brand Midea
  • Cooling Power 8000 British Thermal Units
  • Special Feature Dust Filter, Fast Cooling, Dehumidifier
  • Product Dimensions 19.17"D x 21.97"W x 13.46"H
  • Energy Star 5 Star
  • Start year 2022
  • Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio (SEER) 15
  • Color White
  • Voltage 115 Volts
  • Noise Level 42 dB
ULTRA QUIET - The U-shape design of Midea U Smart Inverter AC uses your window to block noise outside. The highly-efficient inverter system warrants ultra-low noise and vibration, 9x quieter than traditional units with operation as low as 32 dBA.Cooling Watts : 710W, Rated Cooling Amps (AHAM) : 8.78.Airflow (CFM) Roomside (hi low) : 215/150. Refrigerant : R32.

MORE THAN 35% ENERGY SAVINGS - With the advanced DC Inverter technology, Midea U achieves over 35% energy savings compared to other traditional units. It is the first window AC to obtain the ENERGY STAR Most Efficient Certification

SMART CONTROL - Midea U Smart Inverter AC is Wi-Fi enabled and can be controlled from anywhere using the MSmartHome app on iOS or Android. You can also use voice commands throughout your house, office, or apartment using Alexa or Google Assistant devices

FLEXIBLE WINDOW OPENING - The U-shaped design allows your window to open, bringing fresh air into your home and maintaining more of your view when the unit is installed. When the window is closed, the Anti-Theft Mechanism locks the window for added safety

ROBUST INSTALLATION - Install the included quick-snap bracket, set the unit on the bracket, and secure the sidearms. Then you are all done and ready to enjoy. Available for single-hung or double-hung windows with width 22"-36", minimal height at 13.75"


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568...yAdapt=glo2usa
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