Broke down in Bozeman...nice place but we need to get back on the road.

SierraHawk · 07-09-2023, 01:05 PM

(2004 E350 FWD SMB 5.4 engine w/ 330,000 mi)

To prep for this trip, I did all of the regular maintenance. Since the van is high mileage, I had a shop replace the water pump, fan, alternator, thermostat and belt. A/C had been rebuilt the year before. A/C rebuild came with a 24 month/24,000 mile warranty. (Not sure what to do with the warranty.)

July 7

Headed to Glacier. A/C stopped working two days before. A/C would turn on & off without touching the controls but, after a day, the A/C and the controls stopped working altogether.

Pulled off I90 for groceries in Bozeman on Friday. Tried to start the engine. First two times it wouldn't turn all the way over - engine stopped after about a 1/4 turn. Battery is good.

Third time the engine caught but smoke billowed out from under the hood. Fan and belt not turning. Moved the van under its own power so it was out of the way and called for a tow.

Engine temp normal. Laser temps on water pump, alternator pully, tensioner spindle, power steering pully nut, upper and lower hoses, heads, block, etc are all within 140F to 170F. No loss of coolant.

Tow truck driver said that repair shops are... "booked out for 2 to 3 months"?!?!?! Fortunately, we have a friend in Bozeman who is letting us park in their yard but I do not want to be here for several months.

Crawled under the van. The new belt is delaminated and severed at the bottom of the serpentine run. Fan, tensioner, alternator, etc. rotate but A/C pump pully cannot be turned.

Looks like the 18 month old (approx 12,000 mile) A/C pump with little use is frozen (can an A/C pump just stop turning?). It is Sunday. I am trying to determine if I should drop the A/C pump, install another and take it to a shop to have the system refilled or wait for a shop to get around to looking at it.

The names of shops that will work on A/C in Bozeman and any suggestions welcome.

M

marret · 07-09-2023, 01:49 PM

When you say AC pump, you mean compressor?

Wonder if the AC compressor clutch locked up causing the belt to overheat and disintegrate.

Usually one should properly evacuate the freon. Do you think it lost the freon when the AC stopped working?

Your van has the alternator on the same belt as the AC?

The AC pulley is locked up, right?

If it were me, I would try a new AC compressor and belt if the above is correct. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will stop by.

boywonder · 07-09-2023, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marret

Wonder if the AC compressor clutch locked up causing the belt to overheat and disintegrate.

If the clutch locked up wouldn't the A/C just be on all the time? Or at least the evaporator would be cold?

I would guess the compressor is toast but not sure why the clutch would be engaged with the engine off..... hmmmm.....

marret · 07-09-2023, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boywonder

If the clutch locked up wouldn't the A/C just be on all the time? Or at least the evaporator would be cold?

I would guess the compressor is toast but not sure why the clutch would be engaged with the engine off..... hmmmm.....

I mean not allowing the pulley to turn, not the clutch engaged/locked to activate the compressor. Shouldn’t the pulley turn freely when the AC is not on?

SierraHawk · 07-09-2023, 04:18 PM

Yes, it is the compressor and everything runs off of the same belt. The engine is off but the compressor clutch seems to be locked and will not turn.

When the engine was running there was no cold coming from the A/C. The belt was new. Looking at it as it hangs from the pullies, the belt is broken at the 6 'oclock position and resting near the compressor. Looking closer, the belt became delaminated probably when I tried to start it in the parking lot. The shredded ends have an odd appearance. Each one of the pieces of belt that is free is curled about two to three twists. The only thing I can imagine is the belt somehow stretched enough for a loop to become entrapped between a pully and itself. I think it was the doubledback belt that kept the engine from turning over the first two times I tried to start it. It only started when the smoking belt broke.

Never heard of this kinda thing before but the forensics give a bit of credence to the story. But I am not wedded to the theory. I just have a new, shredded and broken fan belt that is curled at the ends of the break and need someone within a radius of 50 miles to fix it but Bozeman population has exploded and the service industries have not kept up.

boywonder · 07-09-2023, 04:22 PM

If you need a quick fix you may be able to buy a belt for a non-A/C van and just bypass the compressor.

Under the hood on my 5.4 I think there is a label that shows belt routing with A/C and without A/C. Obviously the non-A/C belt is shorter.

marret · 07-09-2023, 05:12 PM

Agree with Boywonder. I was wondering if that might be an option.

Might call around to see if someone could evac your system in the near term, then you could swap out the compressor yourself?

boywonder · 07-09-2023, 06:24 PM

SierraHawk: Here is the decal on the radiator support on my 2008 5.4L....

Notice for the gas motors they show the routing for "non-A/C"....that skips the A/C compressor...

...hmmm .....on closer examination, there appears to be a different sized pulley involved.........

If you can get your A/C clutch to spin freely, just get the same belt you have and leave the A/C off till you get back home or wherever....and don't use the defroster either.

86Scotty · 07-09-2023, 08:00 PM

Sierrahawk, PM'd you some info from a friend who knows Bozeman.

SierraHawk · 07-11-2023, 02:17 PM

Talked to 10+ shops up the road in Belgrade, MT - it is 30 miles from Bozeman. Bozeman Ford dealership called and said they could look at the van but they would need it for at least 2 weeks. I suspect that they would just park it in their unfenced yard and leave it there until someone figures out how to start it. I appreciate their offer but waiting for over 2 weeks is a significant logistical problem for us.

Best option right now is Boy Wonder's "Plan B". I will need to find a belt that could power the fan, water pump and steering pump so that we could continue east but most of Montana is open range land.