Do I need 4wd?

[REF]

BTW- I’ve got a ‘99 EB that I purchased as a project van that I haven’t done much else to yet, other than having a previously owned Weldtec lift kit installed along with 315’s, it rides and handles great, came with the upgraded King shocks, rear leaf spring pack and big brake kit. I had a Trutrac installed in what was an open rear. Is it as capable getting in/out of dicey situations….no, but it has the clearance and will get you in/out of any forest service road I’ve ever been on. Of course it’s all conditional.

[dbhosttexas]

So to answer some of the questions here. Have I considered the Weldtec 2wd lift? Yes, that is the debate. Not looking for a ton of lift, just looking to improve the ability to get where I am going on and off road.

I completely understand the concerns RE: the 4.9L. A mild build is on the agenda for that engine. Not looking for a hot performer, but just to get a more modern driving feel to it. I have seen plenty of write ups and videos on, and my mechanic has done a couple of 250HP or thereabouts 4.9s in F250s, don't see why the econoline would be any different, if I could eke out that kind of power with 4.9 reliability, I would be a happy camper. Not a super gas sipper, but not a guzzler like a 5.4 either... and certainly a ton more reliable.

Mind you, my first Sportsmobile was a 71 VW 1600 dual port with early BFG All Terrains in OE size whatever that was way back then. It was no rocketship, but it went where I pointed it, and when it got stuck a come along and some rope got it unstuck...

I have a full load of recovery gear on board, traction boards, winch / cradle and plan on doing a front receiver and power drops front and rear for the winch...

Good thing is with the Penthouse roof, stock suspension and 245/75R16s which are if I recall correctly effectively 30x9.50 ish... leaves me with a peak height not counting my CB anetann which is just stupid tall, at 7' even. The Weldtec 5" lift and my desired tires being 33x12.50/17s would be 1.5" taller radius than the 245s, so that would have roof height at 7' 6.5", well enough below the 9' max I am concerned about...

Honestly given a winch, and some sort of traction adding diff, selectable locker or a good quality limited slip, and other rigs to hook onto should I get beyond where the traction boards can help, I don't see a good reason to not stick with 4wd other than administrative mandates in places I want to go. And even at that, not 100% show stopper either. I have a lifted F150 4x4 with a camper shell. I can use the truck camper for a weekend instead of the SMB if pressed into it...

And @Grayswann, If I see you in camp, you can have the beers. I will be pouring Rum... Both are good though...

The sensible part of my brain is screaming do the Weldtec, but the incredibly stupid let's get effing stuck in some gooey sh*t part of my brain is saying 4x4 conversion... I should know better by now.

[kbeefy]

Well....





First of all, the 4.9 is a torque monster. While no hotrod, it can get you thru alot of stuff. I used to wheel with a friend that had one in a bronco on 36" tires. He did fine.


Second, don't think a 6-8" lift and ginormous tires help. Stock size tires with some traction aids goes a long ways. All a weldtec 5" lift does is fit tires a couple inches taller and give you a few inches more uptravel on your suspension. Fox shocks and deaver springs will make it ride a bit better, but the suspension itself won't get you further. $5000 in suspension parts will not get you any further up the trail. It will just make it a bit more comfortable getting to where your stuck, and make you look cooler on the way.


You might get a little more traction due to suspension articulation, but you'll need a microscope to tell the difference. Tire choice and differentials will make far more impact.


Sailor Jerry's is my rum of choice.

[kbeefy]

Some of my previous 4x4 rigs.....

[dbhosttexas]

Originally Posted by kbeefy

...First of all, the 4.9 is a torque monster. While no hotrod, it can get you thru alot of stuff. I used to wheel with a friend that had one in a bronco on 36" tires. He did fine.

I intentionally chose a 4.9L for a reason. Not fantastic, but good fuel efficiency, incredible reliability, and torque for days. I have some ownership experience with big sixes, mostly AMC 4.2L / 258 cid, but work and recreational experience with 4.9L EFI Fords as well. Lots of vans and F series trucks, including 1 ton trucks were fitted with this engine. It will not win any drag races, but it WILL get me where I am going reliably.

Second, don't think a 6-8" lift and ginormous tires help. Stock size tires with some traction aids goes a long ways. All a weldtec 5" lift does is fit tires a couple inches taller and give you a few inches more uptravel on your suspension. ...

Not looking for monster rubber under this thing. Mostly trying to keep Starcool from meeting the trail. And as you know hopfully lift and larger tires changes 4 critical dimensions or angles on a vehicle. Approach, breakover, and departure angles so how big of a hump can you approach, cross over, and leave without smacking anything, and of course ground clearance or the distance from the rubber to the lowest part of the differential. Again looking mostly to improve breakover angle. Just enough to keep from smashing the AC system on the way to camp.

You might get a little more traction due to suspension articulation, but you'll need a microscope to tell the difference. Tire choice and differentials will make far more impact.

Agreed, however certain routes mandate 4wd. Like I stated above, not a big issue though as I have a 4x4 pickup and camper rig there, just a basic truck shell camper, but it will get me out to Padre Island National Seashore and back... So problem may be self solving.

At a bare minimum I am considering throwing a selectable locker out back and doing the front receiver hitch. I figure anything the cradle will contact, would be a risk to Starcool and back off.

Sailor Jerry's is my rum of choice.

I like Parrot Bay mixed with Pinapple juice for a bit of a tropical twist...

You have had a few more 4x4s than I have and you seem to keep a theme. Mine over the years have been.

78 IHC Scout 2 345 V8 4bbl 4 speed, 4" lift and cut fenders for 33x12.50/15s. It was how I bought it...

84 Jeep CJ-7 4.2L auto. It gave its all to the coastal rust monster.

2004 Ford F150 XLT SuperCab 5.4L that I wish was the 4.6, Rancho 2.5 lift and 33x12.50/17s my current 4wd truck, getting an engine transpant as we speak...

Sorry no pics of the IHC, not sure where the pics of the Jeep or pickup are right now...

[mkosina]

Originally Posted by bisonthecruiser

There are shops that will do a conversion south of the border for sub-$5k. Might be worth looking into on an old rig.

Any references for such shops ? I am done with mine, but may not be a bad datapoint for someone considering purely utilitarian conversion on an older van.

[Wickedwagens]

Do you need 4wd, probably not. Is it nice to have, definitely. We got stuck this last summer in the Nevada desert. We were 60 miles out a mining road hunting and camping near a reservoir when some heavy rains came. The road we were down up to the main road sucked us in and it took us an hour or so to get un stuck and up to higher ground. Once up there where we were safe and had phone service we just called the family and let them know we would be a few extra days. There was one hill we knew we could not get up and over with 2wd. We had food and water and just sat in the van for a few days until the roads dried out then headed home. A little extra stress, but we made it out ok.

[dbhosttexas]

Originally Posted by Wickedwagens

Do you need 4wd, probably not. Is it nice to have, definitely. We got stuck this last summer in the Nevada desert. We were 60 miles out a mining road hunting and camping near a reservoir when some heavy rains came. The road we were down up to the main road sucked us in and it took us an hour or so to get un stuck and up to higher ground. Once up there where we were safe and had phone service we just called the family and let them know we would be a few extra days. There was one hill we knew we could not get up and over with 2wd. We had food and water and just sat in the van for a few days until the roads dried out then headed home. A little extra stress, but we made it out ok.

That is kind of my thought process, but again, my big issues is those places that require 4wd. And again I can always take my 4x4 pickup and just have more setup to do in camp...

[MarinBlaine]

Thought I'd chime in here, owner of 2WD EB E250. I have limited slip 3.73 rear end.


I'm always amazed where this rig will take me. It's rock-stock suspension, other than Bilstein shocks. And contrary to conventional wisdom, we think it rides pretty great on the highway.


I do pine for 4WD, and I also consider various lift options. But with 168k miles on my 5.4 engine, I just can't justify upgrading this rig. So we make due and I'm always looking for the next one online.


We have OEM-sized Michelin Defender LTX tires, that we air down to about 30lbs when the going gets tricky. With this setup, we go so many places...we got all the way out to Toroweap at the north rim of the Grand Canyon...except we couldn't make it up the last little 25-yard push before the campground...and we broke one of our door loop steps on that one but literally did some rock crawling that we probably shouldn't have. We've been all the way up in the Henry Mountain wilderness over some very steep stuff.


We've only been stuck once...and that was in sand and we were able to dig ourselves out in about 20 minutes. We are very careful with sand. I will say that mud is the trickiest surface and we don't do well there so we just say no when in question.



But we go so very far off the grid...and now we're not sure we want to sacrifice on-road manners and gas mileage for 4WD.



Ultimately we will someday get 4WD on our next rig, but again we've been amazed at what we can do. Just make sure you have a pump to air the tires back up.

[dbhosttexas]

Originally Posted by MarinBlaine

Thought I'd chime in here, owner of 2WD EB E250. I have limited slip 3.73 rear end.

Mine is an SB 2wd open diff, and if I recall it has 3.55 gears. Pretty much I would want at the minimum to do this. Probably 3.73 gears.

I'm always amazed where this rig will take me. It's rock-stock suspension, other than Bilstein shocks. And contrary to conventional wisdom, we think it rides pretty great on the highway.

Not sure what brand shocks they used, but I had new shops installed not long ago. I upsized the tires from 225/75R16 to 245/75R16. I am finding that locating shocks for the E series vans not a lot of options... At least in stock configuraiton.

I do pine for 4WD, and I also consider various lift options. But with 168k miles on my 5.4 engine, I just can't justify upgrading this rig. So we make due and I'm always looking for the next one online.

I looked at prices on newer vans, and no disrespect for your 5.4L, but I have a 5.4L 3V Triton in my F150 and hate it. Almost all the newer vans have the 5.4 or the V10. And are well over $35K, not something I wanted to do as I would be changing it up anyway. My 4.9L has been gone through, the chassis has 239K on it, rear end and the 4.9 were redone. The rear end about 10K ago just before I bought it as a condition of sale, engine was about 20K ago and although it needs some love on the carried over bolt ons, the long block is stout... And even it it wasn't, the 4.9 4speed auto are cheap to replace and get another quarter million + on it... I know not everyones cup of tea, but I have a STRONG preference for big inline sixes. No speed demons but good hard pullers that last forever.

[quote}We have OEM-sized Michelin Defender LTX tires, that we air down to about 30lbs when the going gets tricky. [/quote]

Tires presently on the van are Venom Power Terra Hunter XT 245x75R16s, basically 30x9.50/16. Yes they are more or less a cheap All Terrain TA knockoff without the 3 peak snowflake rating, which the overwhelming majority of my driving is in Texas, don't see the need for. Air down is vital for sure.

We've only been stuck once...and that was in sand and we were able to dig ourselves out in about 20 minutes. We are very careful with sand. I will say that mud is the trickiest surface and we don't do well there so we just say no when in question.

I know technically I could easily do sand with a proper traction adding diff, my biggest issue is the requirement for 4wd for the desired locations. And I travel with full recovery gear, including snatch blocks, long handled version of the GI shovel, tracction boards, etc... I can get unstuck pretty easily if I have something to grab onto...

But we go so very far off the grid...and now we're not sure we want to sacrifice on-road manners and gas mileage for 4WD.


Ultimately we will someday get 4WD on our next rig, but again we've been amazed at what we can do. Just make sure you have a pump to air the tires back up.

I know a well outfitted 2wd can do amazing things. Back in college I ran the Chiva Falls trail outside of Tucson in a 1965 VW Westfalia camper van with cut fenders and upsized BFG All Terrains. Obviously not huge rubber but definately bigger than stock.

I think for now, I will just keep slugging away at building / refurbing this old campervan, and when the tranny decides it hates life, that would probably be a good point to do the 4wd conversion...