Powering my outlets with inverter: Do I need Magnum MS2000?

[Scalf77]

Originally Posted by geoffff

Thanks, Greg -- It sounds like you're recommending this, right?

-- Geoff

Yes, that is what I was thinking, and if you wanted to add another breaker and a rotary selector switch the one on the bottom.

Now you see why I don't usually hand draw my diagrams. you can find the rotary switch here.
http://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-9009-A...-2_p_2133.html

you could always add that later if you found you really wanted those outlets off of shore power.



hope this helps.

-greg

[Sheriffdoug]

Originally Posted by ShuttlePilot

I was doing the same thing as geoffff with a harbor freight modified sine 300w inverter plugged into the cig outlet. Those died quickly. Starting from that point I progressed to a Xantrex 600w pure sine fed direct from the house battery with large cables. That unit popped n smoked and was never used near the 600w. Got it replaced under warranty and that one smoked also. So I decided I needed to get serious about this inverter project and ended up with my current set up. I no longer carry a generator.

I wanted an inverter only unit because I had the usual intellipower converter already. I wanted pure sine wave so I didn't have to think about what was going to be plugged in. The off grid people I was talking to all said go with Magnum for a mounted inverter and Morningstar for a portable inverter, period. At the moment I only have one 4D 200ah battery so 1000w inverter is realistically all that can supported. Magnum inverters in that size seemed to come as an inverter/charger combo with an internal transfer switch. So that's how my system would have to be.

In my opinion inverters, solar, and batteries are personal decisions. Use what you feel is best for your adventures. (In space no one can hear you screaming) My system is by no means the best way or the least

expensive but I don't see smoke in the cabin anymore. And solar brewed coffee is kinda cool.


The inverter is mounted in this location because the 12v power bus is under the couch and I wanted to keep this cable run short. The Space Shuttle has three 110v outlets from SMB. One seen in the photo, one under the sink(not shown) and one next to the breaker panel. It was easy to access the wiring behind the outlet above the inverter so I cut it free of the breaker panel and wired it to the inverter/transfer switch. This outlet is also wired to the outlet under the sink by SMB. The third outlet by the panel I'll explain below.


Magnum MMS1012. Wiring protective sheathing removed for picture.


Breaker panel with circuits added. The inverter transfer switch in rated a 15Amps and the SMB 110v wiring is rather small. So, I wired this outlet separately (not through the inverter, shore power only) with a dedicated 20A breaker and 12AWG wires. I call it the Hi Current AC outlet. If I'm on shore power and want to run an electric heater, I plug it into this outlet. It might be odd but I just left the intellipower charger under the couch but wired it to the van/starter battery bank. So I have two separate "chargers" for each battery bank. Not necessary but handy.


The control panel for the inverter/charger that makes it extremely programmable to tailor the charge algorithm to exactly what the battery manufacture recommends. This includes temperature compensation. I moved the charge wizard up here so he wouldn't get left out, even though his charger isn't as smart.


I drew this out just to put in my build binder for the 110 volt system. Don't laugh, other people got artistic in this thread.
Sorry If this got to lengthy. If I can be of assistance please ask. You've all helped me tremendously with what has become a Space Shuttle.

-Eric

G'day,
How do I get the graphics notes you used on you picture, please?
Doug.

[hogasm]

Right click on image

Save as........in documents,pictures etc and give it a name so you won''t forget it

[ShuttlePilot]

Good Morning Sheriffdoug or would it be good evening er... tomorrow if you've made it to home Australia. If your referring to how I added the notes in the pictures its just Microsoft Paint in Win7. It's not fancy but I thought using the AutoCAD wasn't necessary. If you just want to save the pictures for the future, what hogasm said.

If I can make a request. Would you not re-post my reply because it's probably a bit long with large photos. I'm not sure but some forum administrators frown on re-posting large stuff. Thanks

If I can be of assistance please ask.

-Eric

[boywonder]

Originally Posted by geoffff

after:


-- Geoff

I'm wired pretty much as shown in your "after" diagram above......although I don't have any GFCI breakers between shore power and the charger. Not sure what benefit they would provide but probably won't hurt anything. IIRC the intellipower has a couple of ATO type fuses sticking out of it for protection.

As already mentioned, in this config your AC amperage is limited by the inverter wattage. Hasn't been an issue for me although I can think of a scenario where you may be on shore power and want to run a small electric heater and say a coffee maker and the micro........This probably won't work with the above config since you'll be pulling lots of 12V amps. In that case you would be better off with an inverter with a transfer switch.....then you would have 30A of 110V shore power at your disposal.....around 3300 watts or so (30A X110A)

[Scalf77]

There was no real reason to have the converter in a GFCI plug other then it was already there as previously wired.
The output of his inverter is already GFCI protected so adding the outlets down stream still covers those.

That does bring me to a error in my addition to the diagram, as previously drawn through the rotary switch the outlets would not have been GFCI protected. I should run that new breaker to a GFCI plug and then to the switch.

There are a couple of other ways to do it.



-greg

[ShuttlePilot]

Looks like we're all on the same page just with different components. When I got my van in 2010 the breaker panel had a 30 amp main breaker feeding one 15 amp circuit breaker. That's it. The one 15 amp breaker went through the one GFI outlet and then out to the other outlets including one under the couch that the intellipower charger was plugged into. No inverter. I thought why am I even using the heavy 30 amp shore cable if all I have is one 15 amp circuit. Worse was the outlets in the van were competing for that 15 amps with the intellipower charger which can pull 900ish watts if its at full throttle. I don't know if this was a normal configuration for SMB in 2005 or the first owner wanted it. I think my build out could be more on the basic side.

When I did the inverter install I thought I would fill up the other slots in the breaker panel to divide up the available 30 amps. As others have shown, a van that had a 30 amp transfer switch/inverter could place the panel after. Although, I have heard from off grid friends that some inverters can get fussy like that, I wouldn't know why. So in my new set up I have three circuits, one has only one outlet on it, one has the other outlets which can switch between shore power or inverted power (plus the internal house charger) and one is the intellipower charger for the van battery bank. Having one charger for each battery bank way isn't necessary but it's there so I left it in. And, if I want to charge like a boss I can hit the combine switch and run both.

Regarding GFI. I read in the inverter manual that the electric code requires GFI protection to all outlets in an RV. And that the GFI in the inverter was satisfactory for all outlets down stream of it. So I interpret that as it doesn't really mater where the GFI is before an outlet so long as there isn't some outlet somewhere left without it. I think it would have to be a pretty rare set of circumstances to trip a GFI in an RV. Maybe on shore power that has an adequate ground, extension cord plugged into the van going outside, using a hair dryer on the dog while standing in a puddle and you drop the hair dryer. Not impossible. Probably best to use the GFI.

Anyway I hope Geoffff posts a follow up on how his install all went.

-Eric

[boywonder]

Originally Posted by Scalf77

T I should run that new breaker to a GFCI plug and then to the switch.

-greg

....or just use a GFCI breaker....

[DCHitt]

If you have a compressor refrigerator that is a 2 way (110 ac or 12 dc) you have the perfect place to plug it into. You want it running on 12 volts or Shore power but not from the inverter. The GFI plug ahead of the battery charger (converter) is the perfect place.

[daveb]

Originally Posted by DCHitt

If you have a compressor refrigerator that is a 2 way (110 ac or 12 dc) you have the perfect place to plug it into. You want it running on 12 volts or Shore power but not from the inverter. The GFI plug ahead of the battery charger (converter) is the perfect place.

In those cases where I run the main inverter (a standard SMB build) I generally throw that breaker to the fridge off so I'm not "inverting" to keep it running. On shore power it doesn't matter cause it jumps to AC power anyway. To tell the truth I don't really care anyway because I only run the big inverter for limited times. If I run it for longer times it's usually while the engine is running. For light load items I use small inverters.